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Thread: The Jewish vote

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    I'm pretty sure that all those who voted for Biden in 2020 were thinking "I better vote for this anti-Semitic party member." lol
    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    Well, the ones that leave America to grab their ' free ' real estate in Palestine certainly are- as are those who fund squatter fascism from the US. If you're talking about the popular faces of Judaism, Mel Brooks, Gene Wilder, Bob Dylan etc, etc then, of course, you're right. Jewish militancy is born of the American-backed power that Izraeli racists wield over their Palestinian captives. They believe that they are safe for all time , granted impunity for being ' Jewish ' and that justice and the rule of law will never catch up with them.

    I give you Meyer Lansky, Al Capone's bag-man




    List of Jewish American mobsters

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rican_mobsters


    Of course, there are many brainwashed prosemites who would call me antisemitic because I believe that each and every entry on that list represents a Jewish asshole.
    I am utterly shocked that there were Jewish criminals in the historical record. Will wonders never cease?

    I am going to come right out and say I am not smart enough to know what all Jewish and Palestinian people think, nor do I have the knowlege to understand all of the political and socio-economic roots of the conflict.

    My suspicion is that, given a choice, most American Jews would prefer to see peaceful coexistence in the context of a viable two state solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I am utterly shocked that there were Jewish criminals in the historical record. Will wonders never cease?
    Put them in the context of the existing criminal government of Izrael. They are not just murdering thieves- they are MASS-murdering thieves.

    I am going to come right out and say I am not smart enough to know what all Jewish and Palestinian people think, nor do I have the knowlege to understand all of the political and socio-economic roots of the conflict.

    My suspicion is that, given a choice, most American Jews would prefer to see peaceful coexistence in the context of a viable two state solution.
    There are already two states under law. The Izraelis refuse to accept that.

    https://www.facebook.com/41452941531...59143194139390
    " First they came for the journalists...
    We don't know what happened after that . "

    Maria Ressa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    Put them in the context of the existing criminal government of Izrael. They are not just murdering thieves- they are MASS-murdering thieves.



    There are already two states under law. The Izraelis refuse to accept that.

    https://www.facebook.com/41452941531...59143194139390
    That is why I specifically wrote a viable two state solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Althea View Post
    But those in charge do not adequately represent Palestinians as a whole. They are terrorists fighting terrorists. And the innocents are collateral damage.
    Given the choice, the native people vote for Hamas, who will act logically. Why not simply write off the Netemyahu gang as terrorists - it's what they come from, it's what they are, and they are terrorising someone else's country. All this mess reflects the abominable failure of people to help the Jewish majority when they were destroyed by the Third Reich, leaving the minority of nazi-imitators who fled to terrorise their colony in 'Israel'. It made some desperate sort of sense in Hitler's time, and those who supported Hitler support it, but for others, especially decent Jewish people, it is a recipe for disaster.

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    It would help if American Jews condemned the squatters. Otherwise they are condoning criminality and the trashing of the Geneva Conventions.
    " First they came for the journalists...
    We don't know what happened after that . "

    Maria Ressa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    It would help if American Jews condemned the squatters. Otherwise they are condoning criminality and the trashing of the Geneva Conventions.
    As far as I can tell from polling, American Jews are more critical of of the Israeli government's peace effort than are Trumpist Deplorables.

    At the end of the day, the takeaway for me is that Israel has a right to exist, the Palestinians have legitimate grievances, and the goal should be peaceful coexistence between two sovereign states.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    As far as I can tell from polling, American Jews are more critical of of the Israeli government's peace effort than are Trumpist Deplorables.

    At the end of the day, the takeaway for me is that Israel has a right to exist, the Palestinians have legitimate grievances, and the goal should be peaceful coexistence between two sovereign states.
    Fair play now, what is this 'right to exist'? Did the Third Reich or the Nationalist regime in South Africa Have such a right? Can't see it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iolo/Penderyn View Post
    Fair play now, what is this 'right to exist'? Did the Third Reich or the Nationalist regime in South Africa Have such a right? Can't see it.
    By the standards of international law. The state of Israel is recognized as a sovereign entity by the vast majority of governments on the planet. 164 according to Wikipedia.

    Civil rights abuses and crimes attributable to Israeli government is a separate issue of international jurisprudence, since sovereignty is recognized and established.

    I could be wrong, but I think every reasonable person sees a viable two state solution as the end game here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    By the standards of international law. The state of Israel is recognized as a sovereign entity by the vast majority of governments on the planet. 164 according to Wikipedia.

    Civil rights abuses and crimes attributable to Israeli government is a separate issue of international jurisprudence, since sovereignty is recognized and established.

    I could be wrong, but I think every reasonable person sees a viable two state solution as the end game here.
    Would you give the UN the right to let foreigners take over your country? This is pretty basic stuff here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    For a supposedly anti-Semitic party, it is surprising that year after year, decade after decade, Jewish voters are among the most reliably loyal Democratic voters.
    The downside of a two-party system; no matter how fucked up both are, most voters will pick one or the other. For Jews and African-Americans it's the Democratic Party because the Republicans offer less consistent support....or they could vote Third Party locally, but I doubt a Jewish or African-American third party would make more progress than any other Third Party.

    Which brings up a major point: Numbers*. Percentage of the population. Jews make up 2.7M of the Adult** US population, Muslims 1.4M, Christian 173.4 out of a 228.2M American Adults.

    https://www2.census.gov/library/publ...es/12s0075.xls

    Given that a "blended nation" is making racial differences less clear, the US Census still subdivides Americans by race. As such, Whites number 244.3M, Blacks 39.6M, Asians 14.0M.

    https://www2.census.gov/library/publ...es/12s0010.xls


    Voter turnout is an important factor to consider the impact of a population on our system of government: https://www.census.gov/library/stori...-election.html

    Graphics:
     


    With all this data, when discussing the OP, the question "So what?" comes to mind. Sure, as the link and graphic below display, Jews can affect local elections such as city and state, but that's mostly a situation where Christians are evenly divided and a small percentage can tip the election.

    Consider Arizona and Pennsylvania where the Adult Jewish population is 113,000 and 275,00 respectively. Total adult population of those states is 3,763,685 and 9,358,833 respectively. Meaning Jews are 3% and 2.9% of the voting population per state, respectively. 3% only becomes significant if the Christian voting population is split by less than 3% or any combination where 3% can tip the election. Otherwise, it's just interesting numbers.

    https://www.brandeis.edu/now/2020/oc...teinhardt.html
     

    https://www.infoplease.com/us/census...hic-statistics
    https://www.infoplease.com/us/census...hic-statistics

    All that said, while I fully support the rights of Americans as individuals to the rights and benefits shared by all Americans, it's a puzzle to me why the focus is upon such small portions of the American population versus the larger portions.

    Consider that adult black voters constitute only 16% of adult white voters (13% of all adult voters), yet the focus is on Juneteenth, the second of two Federal holidays dedicated to African-Americans. Columbus Day can be seen as a "White Holiday" and I'd rather make St. Patty's day or Cinco de Mayo a holiday in its place.

    I'm not saying Americans shouldn't care, I'm saying Americans should focus on doing something that actually makes a difference such as ensuring a quality education for all Americans since the poor areas of America, disproportionately minority areas, is what really needs work. Recognition by Holiday is nice, but what does it do except give Federal workers another paid day off?



    * please feel free to check my math because I've been known to screw up both before and after my morning coffee.

    **Adult can be interpreted as "voting age" but not necessarily voters.
    Stripping Americans of their rights, regardless if unalienable or unenumerated, is against American ideals

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iolo/Penderyn View Post
    Would you give the UN the right to let foreigners take over your country? This is pretty basic stuff here.
    I am a realist.

    Rolling the clock back to 1947 is not a realistic solution.

    A viable two state solution, with a sovereign Israel and a sovereign Palestine is the only plausible way forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Polling suggests American Jews are more critical of the sincerity of the Israeli government's peace efforts than are your garden variety Deplorable.
    Certainly Israelis are more accepting overall of an authoritarian far-right leader like Netanyahu than American Jews would be of the same over here, as evidenced by their voting patterns. Kind of ironic, given that the state of Israel was created because of a certain authoritarian far-right German leader and his actions against Jews.
    “Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.” -- Gandhi

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    I straddle the fence on this like an Adonis.

    Israel is taking more land, making more settlements and has a people in an open air prison state, on the one hand, and
    alone in a sea of dangerous Jew hater Muslim states, Palestinians are lobbing indiscriminate rockets into Israel and selecting a designated terrorist org as official government.

    I don't like what either side does in this civil war. Not picking sides.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    That is why I specifically wrote a viable two state solution.
    Agreed.

    OTOH, this shit has been going of ever since 5 Arab nations attacked Israel the day after they declared themselves a nation in 1948.

    If the Arabs AKA Muslims really wanted peace, they'd have helped the Palestinians build infrastructure instead of giving them weapons.

    Anyone with an average IQ or higher can figure out that rockets and suicide vests aren't made by Hamas or from local materials. The weapons are imported.

    So far, the best way to achieve peace in the Middle East has been persuading Arab nations to recognize Israel and stop destabilizing the region with weaponry.



    That said, after over 70 years of constant attack, I can see why Israel has overreacted with RWers like Netanyahu even though I don't condone it.
    Stripping Americans of their rights, regardless if unalienable or unenumerated, is against American ideals

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    Quote Originally Posted by Micawber View Post
    I straddle the fence on this like an Adonis.

    Israel is taking more land, making more settlements and has a people in an open air prison state, on the one hand, and
    alone in a sea of dangerous Jew hater Muslim states, Palestinians are lobbing indiscriminate rockets into Israel and selecting a designated terrorist org as official government.

    I don't like what either side does in this civil war. Not picking sides.
    Yes, but note that land was used to launch attacks. Mexico is lucky the US didn't take Chihuahua and a few other sectors of Mexico after it let Pancho Villa kill Americans on our side of the border.

    While the US supports the Kurds, can anyone really fault the Turks or Iraqis if Kurds attack inside their respective territories? Russia for Chechen terrorist attacks inside Russia? The US attack on Afghanistan after 9/11?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Villa_Expedition
    The Pancho Villa Expedition—now known officially in the United States as the Mexican Expedition,[6] but originally referred to as the "Punitive Expedition, U.S. Army"[1]—was a military operation conducted by the United States Army against the paramilitary forces of Mexican revolutionary Francisco "Pancho" Villa from March 14, 1916, to February 7, 1917, during the Mexican Revolution of 1910–1920.

    The expedition was launched in retaliation for Villa's attack on the town of Columbus, New Mexico, and was the most remembered event of the Mexican Border War. The declared objective of the expedition by the Wilson administration was the capture of Villa.[7] Despite locating and defeating the main body of Villa's command who were responsible for the Columbus raid, U.S. forces were unable to achieve Wilson's stated main objective of preventing Villa's escape.
    Stripping Americans of their rights, regardless if unalienable or unenumerated, is against American ideals

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