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Thread: Books that matter: Analects of Confucius

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    I believe Confucius did exist and that most of his philosophy was about family life and civilization. Most of his teachings were written years after his death. Most of his teachings came from common sense.

    For example, I believe he was the author of the number 1 rule in the world- HIS GOLDEN RULE- "Do not impose on others what you do not wish for yourself."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geeko Sportivo View Post
    I believe Confucius did exist and that most of his philosophy was about family life and civilization. Most of his teachings were written years after his death. Most of his teachings came from common sense.

    For example, I believe he was the author of the number 1 rule in the world- HIS GOLDEN RULE- "Do not impose on others what you do not wish for yourself."
    The oral tradition was more in play during the late Bronze Age. Socrates, Jesus, Siddhartha Guatama never wrote anything either. It was only after their profound legacy was recognized in hindsight that their students complied their teachings.

    The thing that really stands out for me about Confucius is that virtue is its own reward.

    He doesn't concern himself with a code of conduct intended to induce a heavenly reward, or to acquire some transcendent goal.

    He just thinks the cultivation of virtue is it's own reward, independent of anything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Which is what the Evangelicals want to do to fulfill prophecy for the Second Coming.
    Jesus just might do it without human interference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Dillon View Post
    Jesus just might do it without human interference.
    Doesn't that go against everything Jesus stood for?
    Stripping Americans of their rights, regardless if unalienable or unenumerated, is against American ideals

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geeko Sportivo View Post
    I believe Confucius did exist and that most of his philosophy was about family life and civilization. Most of his teachings were written years after his death. Most of his teachings came from common sense.

    For example, I believe he was the author of the number 1 rule in the world- HIS GOLDEN RULE- "Do not impose on others what you do not wish for yourself."
    https://www.justplainpolitics.com/ed...83&do=editpost

    Family in non-industrial cultures is important for multiple reasons, but mainly because they offer security when there is no other support.

    Example: Families are one's own retirement plan. One's own hospital and care facility. A man who breaks a leg and is alone will probably die from starvation or bandits. The same man with a family can be cared for until he can resume working again.
    Stripping Americans of their rights, regardless if unalienable or unenumerated, is against American ideals

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    https://www.justplainpolitics.com/ed...83&do=editpost

    Family in non-industrial cultures is important for multiple reasons, but mainly because they offer security when there is no other support.

    Example: Families are one's own retirement plan. One's own hospital and care facility. A man who breaks a leg and is alone will probably die from starvation or bandits. The same man with a family can be cared for until he can resume working again.
    In the Confucian well-ordered society, the nuclear family was supposed to be a template for the state at large. The ruling class was supposed to be moral, caring, and benevolent to it's citizens like the good father was supposed to be in the familial social construct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    In the Confucian well-ordered society, the nuclear family was supposed to be a template for the state at large. The ruling class was supposed to be moral, caring, and benevolent to it's citizens like the good father was supposed to be in the familial social construct.
    That's a nice fantasy, but power corrupts. Once removed from the immediate family, "other people" just become widgets, numbers, pawns, etc.

    A major difference between a traditional society and a modern society is family. My family is scattered across six states, soon to be seven when my Coast Guard SIL gets her PCS orders. A traditional society has even cousins just around the block or in the same village.

    This is one reason why, in a world of limited resources, socialism doesn't work. Sure, socialism is great for a tribe or village since everyone can participate or listen to leaders discuss problems and solutions then interact with them directly. It's hard to argue with Xi when you're just a villager up to your knees in pig shit.

    What was the "groan" for?
    Stripping Americans of their rights, regardless if unalienable or unenumerated, is against American ideals

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    That's a nice fantasy, but power corrupts. Once removed from the immediate family, "other people" just become widgets, numbers, pawns, etc.

    A major difference between a traditional society and a modern society is family. My family is scattered across six states, soon to be seven when my Coast Guard SIL gets her PCS orders. A traditional society has even cousins just around the block or in the same village.

    This is one reason why, in a world of limited resources, socialism doesn't work. Sure, socialism is great for a tribe or village since everyone can participate or listen to leaders discuss problems and solutions then interact with them directly. It's hard to argue with Xi when you're just a villager up to your knees in pig shit.

    What was the "groan" for?
    I hit groan by accident i will see if I can change it.

    That is a huge difference bewtween Eastern and Western thought. The western emphasis on individualism contrasts with the Eastern mode of communalism

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I hit groan by accident i will see if I can change it.

    That is a huge difference bewtween Eastern and Western thought. The western emphasis on individualism contrasts with the Eastern mode of communalism
    No worries. I have one "groan" given but it was an accident and I have no idea to whom it was given.

    Agreed about Eastern and Western thought. IMO, Eastern thought is more holistic, encompassing the entire human brain but Western thought is primarily linear, focusing on the Left Brain over the Right Brain. Western thought is good for machines, industry and logic but it's lacking in human growth as people.
    Stripping Americans of their rights, regardless if unalienable or unenumerated, is against American ideals

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    The oral tradition was more in play during the late Bronze Age. Socrates, Jesus, Siddhartha Guatama never wrote anything either. It was only after their profound legacy was recognized in hindsight that their students complied their teachings.

    The thing that really stands out for me about Confucius is that virtue is its own reward.

    He doesn't concern himself with a code of conduct intended to induce a heavenly reward, or to acquire some transcendent goal.

    He just thinks the cultivation of virtue is it's own reward, independent of anything else.
    I agree.

    I believe Confucius is under-rated or well- under studied and under-appreciated. He should be on the Best-Seller list.

    Thanks for giving him a plug!

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    Intelligent and curious people have a keen interest in Chinese philosophy. According to this professor, it is partly because the western tradition of individualism can alienate one from a sense of community -- which purportedly is the attraction of Confucianism.

    From the universities throughout North America, Europe, and the rest of the world—courses in Chinese philosophy have produced robust enrollment figures, even at a time when many people bemoan the sheer practicality of interests among students.

    Something is going on, and we would do best to listen to that hunger for understanding.


    People have a thirst for knowledge and for lessons they can internalize—lessons that might make them better individuals, better family members, and better members of larger communities.

    At least in the West, we too often hear these lessons through the voice of individual character. But what we are starved for—often without fully realizing it—is a different kind of lesson: We want to know how to live with integrity with others. No amount of personal integrity alone can work if we don’t know how to carry out our lives with other people, in community, in society.

    What we must learn is that living well in the world (and solving the large and small challenges all around us) requires a remarkable combination of ethical and social imagination.

    Robert André LaFleur, Ph.D.
    Professor of History and Anthropology

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    According to professor Robert Andre LaFleur, Buddhism was unable to displace Confucianism as the dominant social construct in China because Buddhism was always seen to some degree as a foreign influence; the eschewing of familial bonds by Buddhist monks was an anathema for the Chinese/Confucian emphasis on reverence for family; and the concepts of suffering and impermanence is something that Confucianism did not really address.

    On the flipside, Buddhism did make substantial inroads into China, particularly in the working classes because it addressed issues more directly relevant to the individual than does Confucianism, with it's emphasis on hierarchy, order, and social ritual.

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    This is an analogy of Sun Tzu v. Clausewitz in their approach to warfare...


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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    This is an analogy of Sun Tzu v. Clausewitz in their approach to warfare...

    classic scene.

    Noteworthy that Sun Tzu's life was contemporaneous with Confucius'.

    Some scholars have noted how peculiar it is that most of humanity's enduring and long-standing religious and intellectual traditions can be traced back to individuals whose lives were roughly contemporaneous in a 6th to 5th century BCE axial age, aka Confucius, Siddhartha Guatama, Laozi, Socrates, Plato.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    classic scene.

    Noteworthy that Sun Tzu's life was contemporaneous with Confucius'.

    Some scholars have noted how peculiar it is that most of humanity's enduring and long-standing religious and intellectual traditions can be traced back to individuals whose lives were roughly contemporaneous in a 6th to 5th century BCE axial age, aka Confucius, Siddhartha Guatama, Laozi, Socrates, Plato.
    To what do you attribute that? Tech? In their case, writing and libraries?

    Note that Native American tribes rarely wrote. Much of the history of the Comanches in Texas is completely unknown except through archeological digs since they never recorded their history.
    Stripping Americans of their rights, regardless if unalienable or unenumerated, is against American ideals

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