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Thread: Why aren’t they demanding that Hamas surrender, instead?

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    Default Why aren’t they demanding that Hamas surrender, instead?

    I have some questions for my colleagues on the left.

    We’ve worked together for years. We’ve had happy hours and coffees, and taken our kids on playdates. We’ve worked to pass bills and elect public servants together. We have marched together, celebrated and mourned together.

    We have carefully avoided the subject of Israel, and when we have discussed it, we have set firm boundaries to assure our friendships weren’t destroyed.


    Now we can avoid it no longer.

    Many of you are demanding a cease-fire. I can understand why.

    I too mourn the loss of innocent life, especially the children. The loss of entire families in Gaza fills me with grief. I have supported peace my whole life.

    But I am not ready to advocate for a cease-fire. And I have some questions for you about why you think you should.

    I am struck by the fact that while calls for a cease-fire are loud, few seem to have any clarity about what conditions a cease-fire should require. Hamas’ record with cease-fires is less than reassuring: Just weeks ago Hamas broke a cease-fire in order to launch a horrific attack on Israeli civilians during a national holiday. Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton recently said that a cease-fire would be a “gift” to Hamas, as they would only use it to rebuild and repair their capacity to launch attacks. And senior Hamas officials have openly said they aim to repeat these terror attacks “over and over” until “Israel is destroyed.”



    https://forward.com/opinion/568121/c...as-israel-war/
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    Quote Originally Posted by guno View Post
    I have some questions for my colleagues on the left.

    We’ve worked together for years. We’ve had happy hours and coffees, and taken our kids on playdates. We’ve worked to pass bills and elect public servants together. We have marched together, celebrated and mourned together.

    We have carefully avoided the subject of Israel, and when we have discussed it, we have set firm boundaries to assure our friendships weren’t destroyed.


    Now we can avoid it no longer.

    Many of you are demanding a cease-fire. I can understand why.

    I too mourn the loss of innocent life, especially the children. The loss of entire families in Gaza fills me with grief. I have supported peace my whole life.

    But I am not ready to advocate for a cease-fire. And I have some questions for you about why you think you should.

    I am struck by the fact that while calls for a cease-fire are loud, few seem to have any clarity about what conditions a cease-fire should require. Hamas’ record with cease-fires is less than reassuring: Just weeks ago Hamas broke a cease-fire in order to launch a horrific attack on Israeli civilians during a national holiday. Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton recently said that a cease-fire would be a “gift” to Hamas, as they would only use it to rebuild and repair their capacity to launch attacks. And senior Hamas officials have openly said they aim to repeat these terror attacks “over and over” until “Israel is destroyed.”



    https://forward.com/opinion/568121/c...as-israel-war/
    Tough, tough position. In my opinion there should be three goals, Israel believes there should only be one. Demanding that Hamas surrender and is pointless. As for a cease fire the question for me is ‘what is the goal and would a ceasefire accomplish that?’ The first part is easy. Get aide to the Palestinians and get as many hostages back as possible. Can a ceasefire accomplish that? I think the answer is probably no. Bottom line this is an incredibly complex situation. We should act in our best interest. That means supporting Israel but tempering that with OUR other goals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post
    Tough, tough position. In my opinion there should be three goals, Israel believes there should only be one. Demanding that Hamas surrender and is pointless. As for a cease fire the question for me is ‘what is the goal and would a ceasefire accomplish that?’ The first part is easy. Get aide to the Palestinians and get as many hostages back as possible. Can a ceasefire accomplish that? I think the answer is probably no. Bottom line this is an incredibly complex situation. We should act in our best interest. That means supporting Israel but tempering that with OUR other goals.
    A true catastrophe
    “If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”

    — Golda Meir

    Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel.







    ברוך השם

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    Quote Originally Posted by guno View Post
    I have some questions for my colleagues on the left.

    We’ve worked together for years. We’ve had happy hours and coffees, and taken our kids on playdates. We’ve worked to pass bills and elect public servants together. We have marched together, celebrated and mourned together.

    We have carefully avoided the subject of Israel, and when we have discussed it, we have set firm boundaries to assure our friendships weren’t destroyed.


    Now we can avoid it no longer.

    Many of you are demanding a cease-fire. I can understand why.

    I too mourn the loss of innocent life, especially the children. The loss of entire families in Gaza fills me with grief. I have supported peace my whole life.

    But I am not ready to advocate for a cease-fire. And I have some questions for you about why you think you should.

    I am struck by the fact that while calls for a cease-fire are loud, few seem to have any clarity about what conditions a cease-fire should require. Hamas’ record with cease-fires is less than reassuring: Just weeks ago Hamas broke a cease-fire in order to launch a horrific attack on Israeli civilians during a national holiday. Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton recently said that a cease-fire would be a “gift” to Hamas, as they would only use it to rebuild and repair their capacity to launch attacks. And senior Hamas officials have openly said they aim to repeat these terror attacks “over and over” until “Israel is destroyed.”



    https://forward.com/opinion/568121/c...as-israel-war/
    What would that look like? Hamas is not currently attacking? They are super weak and have no power other than a sneak attack when nobody is looking.

    Hamas is getting exactly what they wanted, a superior power funded by the west aggressively pounding them. THey are like Trump, always playing the aggrieved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    What would that look like? Hamas is not currently attacking? They are super weak and have no power other than a sneak attack when nobody is looking.

    Hamas is getting exactly what they wanted, a superior power funded by the west aggressively pounding them. THey are like Trump, always playing the aggrieved.
    You're a fucking dunce. What they did was a well funded well organized operation which perfectly aligns with their explicit goal of killing every Jew on the planet. They freely choose to use Palestinian civilians as shields so they can wage a PR war against Jews and sadly people like you are all too eager to buy their bullshit. EVERYTHING that has transpired and will continue to transpire is the directly result of choices made by hamas and no one else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post
    Tough, tough position. In my opinion there should be three goals, Israel believes there should only be one. Demanding that Hamas surrender and is pointless. As for a cease fire the question for me is ‘what is the goal and would a ceasefire accomplish that?’ The first part is easy. Get aide to the Palestinians and get as many hostages back as possible. Can a ceasefire accomplish that? I think the answer is probably no. Bottom line this is an incredibly complex situation. We should act in our best interest. That means supporting Israel but tempering that with OUR other goals.
    This not complex in the least. Hamas is a terrorist group with one of it's explicit goals being the complete annihilation of Jews from the face of the earth. Explain why Israel should consider a ceasefire with such a group? Hamas is a rabid dog. Israel has been able to retrain. I think the only reason Israel hasn't already done what we know needs to be done to a rabid dog is because they know the whining would be never ending.
    Last edited by Yakuda; 11-03-2023 at 01:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yakuda View Post
    You're a fucking dunce. What they did was a well funded well organized operation which perfectly aligns with their explicit goal of killing every Jew on the planet. They freely choose to use Palestinian civilians as shields so they can wage a PR war against Jews and sadly people like you are all too eager to buy their bullshit. EVERYTHING that has transpired and will continue to transpire is the directly result of choices made by hamas and no one else.
    I agree with the bolded part, but these people are not dumb, they want Israel to come in with tanks and kill Muslims, its their goal to cause the next generation to continue hating Jews. They are going to get it.

    These are the choices of Hamas, you are correct. And they are getting what they wanted.

    Do you know the story of Tar Baby? Its the same story of Iraq and Afghanistan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    I agree with the bolded part, but these people are not dumb, they want Israel to come in with tanks and kill Muslims, its their goal to cause the next generation to continue hating Jews. They are going to get it.

    These are the choices of Hamas, you are correct. And they are getting what they wanted.

    Do you know the story of Tar Baby? Its the same story of Iraq and Afghanistan.
    Ah yes very clever. The Jews are giving hamas exactly what they want so the Jews should do nothing and as a result Hamas and the next generation of muslims will love the Jews and live in complete harmony with Israel, as soon as there isnt a Jew remaining on the planet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yakuda View Post
    Ah yes very clever. The Jews are giving hamas exactly what they want so the Jews should do nothing and as a result Hamas and the next generation of muslims will love the Jews and live in complete harmony with Israel.
    I did not say that, I don't know what they should do. I can however see what is happening.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    I did not say that, I don't know what they should do. I can however see what is happening.
    There aren't many options Jarod. They could fight back, do nothing or beg Hamas and the next generation of Muslims not to kill them. Now even though I say otherwise I know there not a fucking idiot Jarod. To say "I don't know what they should do" is a ridiculous response. The fact is Hamas and the next generation of Muslims will hate Israel no matter what they do so Israel should only do what best ensures their survival.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yakuda View Post
    There aren't many options Jarod. They could fight back, do nothing or beg Hamas and the next generation of Muslims not to kill them. Now even though I say otherwise I know there not a fucking idiot Jarod. To say "I don't know what they should do" is a ridiculous response. The fact is Hamas and the next generation of Muslims will hate Israel no matter what they do so Israel should only do what best ensures their survival.
    Id like to work on a long term solution, not a continuation of the 1000's of years of this fight.
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    I wish Israel was not being run by an EVIL man at this time

    There would be far fewer innocents losing their lives in this stupid religious murder and power spree

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    Id like to work on a long term solution, not a continuation of the 1000's of years of this fight.
    Ok fair enough. Throw out an idea. What would make Hamas stop wanting to eradicate Jews from the face of the earth? See I think that's a MAJOR stumbling block but I'm the idiot. Help me out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    What would that look like? Hamas is not currently attacking? They are super weak and have no power other than a sneak attack when nobody is looking.

    Hamas is getting exactly what they wanted, a superior power funded by the west aggressively pounding them. THey are like Trump, always playing the aggrieved.
    Rockets still coming into Israel
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