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Thread: For your consideration: Covid vaccinations

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    Hello Taichiliberal,

    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    hmm, not quite. Check this out:

    Here we have a lot of "could be" and "most likely" from earlier this year:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...ree-weeks.html

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ay/4401778001/

    Then there is this:

    Is COVID-19 Herd Immunity Possible?


    https://garynull.com/is-covid-19-her...nity-possible/
    That's old news. Way more than 8% of Americans have received their first dose. Last I heard we were up to 69%.

    What can clearly be seen in the data is that the more injections there have been, the fewer new cases have been seen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Taichiliberal,



    That's old news. Way more than 8% of Americans have received their first dose. Last I heard we were up to 69%.

    What can clearly be seen in the data is that the more injections there have been, the fewer new cases have been seen.
    No, that's just guess work. Look back at all the recorded cases of "super spreader" events where there was NEVER a follow up as to just how many people from those events came down with Covid (I remember one rave like party of college kids and less than 10 tested positive. Thing was, it was never confirmed if they had brought the disease with them or got it at the party) or passed it on. That was before the vaccines started getting wide spread distribution. Then tie in the FACT that the Covid tests are less than what, 60/40 accuracy? And remember, doctors were given the permission to determine whether a person died from Covid or "covid related" illness....meaning a pre-condition that may have been the actual cause of death.

    There are just too many variables to make the declarative statements and mandates we see from official sources.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Hello Taichiliberal,

    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    No, that's just guess work. Look back at all the recorded cases of "super spreader" events where there was NEVER a follow up as to just how many people from those events came down with Covid (I remember one rave like party of college kids and less than 10 tested positive. Thing was, it was never confirmed if they had brought the disease with them or got it at the party) or passed it on. That was before the vaccines started getting wide spread distribution. Then tie in the FACT that the Covid tests are less than what, 60/40 accuracy? And remember, doctors were given the permission to determine whether a person died from Covid or "covid related" illness....meaning a pre-condition that may have been the actual cause of death.

    There are just too many variables to make the declarative statements and mandates we see from official sources.
    There exist numerous reasons to doubt the news by using selective analysis. There are still people who believe we never landed on the moon or put instruments on Mars. They have their reasons. Who shot JFK? Recently, there was a very convincing story about life on Mars. Turned out to be something else, not life. The reasons to doubt news stories always exist.

    And there are very convincing reasons why the news is credible.

    In the case of this pandemic, most of science and the medical profession are convinced that the use of vaccines have made a huge difference in the number of cases. I agree.

    Engaging in whataboutism is not going to change that.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Covid is centered in a younger group than it was in the beginning. That is, of course, because the older people were vaccinated. The younger people facing it now resisted the vaccine and protocols. I feel sorry for those who acted like petulant children and demanded the power to ignore science and believe Trump. They are paying the price now. Corona gives some people lingering problems that may be lifetime. Too bad their choice of news is harming them and their families.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Taichiliberal,

    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    No, that's just guess work. Look back at all the recorded cases of "super spreader" events where there was NEVER a follow up as to just how many people from those events came down with Covid (I remember one rave like party of college kids and less than 10 tested positive. Thing was, it was never confirmed if they had brought the disease with them or got it at the party) or passed it on. That was before the vaccines started getting wide spread distribution. Then tie in the FACT that the Covid tests are less than what, 60/40 accuracy? And remember, doctors were given the permission to determine whether a person died from Covid or "covid related" illness....meaning a pre-condition that may have been the actual cause of death.

    There are just too many variables to make the declarative statements and mandates we see from official sources.

    There exist numerous reasons to doubt the news by using selective analysis. There are still people who believe we never landed on the moon or put instruments on Mars. They have their reasons. Who shot JFK? Recently, there was a very convincing story about life on Mars. Turned out to be something else, not life. The reasons to doubt news stories always exist.

    And there are very convincing reasons why the news is credible.

    In the case of this pandemic, most of science and the medical profession are convinced that the use of vaccines have made a huge difference in the number of cases. I agree.

    Engaging in whataboutism is not going to change that.
    Here's the thing, PT....I'm not talking about "selective analysis" by network news....I'm talking about press releases from the WHO and the CDC....Dr. Fauci shooting his mouth off with various declarations, and press conferences held by leading hospital administrators.

    That is what my previous post is referring to. Given that, the rest of your response is essentially based on an erroneous viewpoint.

    I'm not saying that this virus wasn't serious or that people didn't die or are dying from it....just look to what I previously pointed out, then add to the FACT that there is NO guidelines from the powers that be as to guard against or self treat intially symptoms.....this is a first regarding flu seasons and such in my lifetime. Not a peep regarding vitamins or minerals or supplements or tea extracts, nothing about vitamin C outside of "China found it useful" for a hot day or two. Instead, people were (and still are) told to self isolate until you really get sick, then go to the hospital where you disappear from family and friends, put on an IV of glucose and saline, and then mysteriously "treated" until you either come out or end up in ICU on a ventilator. That's not good.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    No, that's just guess work. Look back at all the recorded cases of "super spreader" events where there was NEVER a follow up as to just how many people from those events came down with Covid (I remember one rave like party of college kids and less than 10 tested positive. Thing was, it was never confirmed if they had brought the disease with them or got it at the party) or passed it on. That was before the vaccines started getting wide spread distribution. Then tie in the FACT that the Covid tests are less than what, 60/40 accuracy? And remember, doctors were given the permission to determine whether a person died from Covid or "covid related" illness....meaning a pre-condition that may have been the actual cause of death.

    There are just too many variables to make the declarative statements and mandates we see from official sources.
    The Sturgis Motorcycle Rally was a super spreader and it was tracked all over the country. Every single event in America cannot be chased. If you are saying a large group of people gathering during a pandemic will not spread the disease, you are not thinking well. The first rush of Corona was in nursing homes and they were tracked carefully. It is real.

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    Hello Taichiliberal,

    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    Here's the thing, PT....I'm not talking about "selective analysis" by network news....I'm talking about press releases from the WHO and the CDC....Dr. Fauci shooting his mouth off with various declarations, and press conferences held by leading hospital administrators.

    That is what my previous post is referring to. Given that, the rest of your response is essentially based on an erroneous viewpoint.

    I'm not saying that this virus wasn't serious or that people didn't die or are dying from it....just look to what I previously pointed out, then add to the FACT that there is NO guidelines from the powers that be as to guard against or self treat intially symptoms.....this is a first regarding flu seasons and such in my lifetime. Not a peep regarding vitamins or minerals or supplements or tea extracts, nothing about vitamin C outside of "China found it useful" for a hot day or two. Instead, people were (and still are) told to self isolate until you really get sick, then go to the hospital where you disappear from family and friends, put on an IV of glucose and saline, and then mysteriously "treated" until you either come out or end up in ICU on a ventilator. That's not good.
    That's a good point. We don't hear enough about how to maintain good health and a strong immune system, one of the most important things in fighting any virus. Be strong. Don't get sick in the first place.

    But the advice about keeping distance from other humans was absolutely spot on.

    No matter what your immunity levels you can't get a virus you are not exposed to.

    Until we had the vaccines, distance has been truly our greatest defense.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

  9. #98 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post


    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    No, that's just guess work. Look back at all the recorded cases of "super spreader" events where there was NEVER a follow up as to just how many people from those events came down with Covid (I remember one rave like party of college kids and less than 10 tested positive. Thing was, it was never confirmed if they had brought the disease with them or got it at the party) or passed it on. That was before the vaccines started getting wide spread distribution. Then tie in the FACT that the Covid tests are less than what, 60/40 accuracy? And remember, doctors were given the permission to determine whether a person died from Covid or "covid related" illness....meaning a pre-condition that may have been the actual cause of death.

    There are just too many variables to make the declarative statements and mandates we see from official sources.
    The Sturgis Motorcycle Rally was a super spreader and it was tracked all over the country. Every single event in America cannot be chased. If you are saying a large group of people gathering during a pandemic will not spread the disease, you are not thinking well. The first rush of Corona was in nursing homes and they were tracked carefully. It is real.
    I looked into that....even with the adjusted research numbers, two things stand out: how many of the cases tested BEFORE the rally, and when all is said and done, the numbers STILL DON'T constitute a documented "super spreader". In other words, nothing more uncommon than what would happen during a "regular" flu season. Check it out:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...st/3458606001/
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    The Sturgis Motorcycle Rally was a super spreader and it was tracked all over the country. Every single event in America cannot be chased. If you are saying a large group of people gathering during a pandemic will not spread the disease, you are not thinking well. The first rush of Corona was in nursing homes and they were tracked carefully. It is real.
    We did an absolutely atrocious job at contact tracing (another utter failure of the Trump Administration) so it's much more difficult to pin down what a 'super spreader' event is. Anecdotally, when the beach bars here in Jacksonville reopened, there were dozens of cases that were traced to a couple of those bars. The infected were all young people, who went on to spread it to others, and Florida was a shit show for two months. Right now, there is a direct correlation between the percentage of people vaccinated in a state, and the positivity rate and new case rate. It is a statistical certainty. The vaccines work.

    As for Sturgis..... it was linked to 260,000 cases of the virus.

    https://khn.org/morning-breakout/stu...0-covid-cases/

    Any narrative that suggests that Covid is not a highly contagious and deadly disease that is spread more easily in the absence of mitigation measures is a lie. Period. Full stop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    I looked into that....even with the adjusted research numbers, two things stand out: how many of the cases tested BEFORE the rally, and when all is said and done, the numbers STILL DON'T constitute a documented "super spreader". In other words, nothing more uncommon than what would happen during a "regular" flu season. Check it out:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...st/3458606001/
    Maybe you can show me where an event led to 260,000 cases of the flu. Don't think so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Taichiliberal,

    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    Here's the thing, PT....I'm not talking about "selective analysis" by network news....I'm talking about press releases from the WHO and the CDC....Dr. Fauci shooting his mouth off with various declarations, and press conferences held by leading hospital administrators.

    That is what my previous post is referring to. Given that, the rest of your response is essentially based on an erroneous viewpoint.

    I'm not saying that this virus wasn't serious or that people didn't die or are dying from it....just look to what I previously pointed out, then add to the FACT that there is NO guidelines from the powers that be as to guard against or self treat intially symptoms.....this is a first regarding flu seasons and such in my lifetime. Not a peep regarding vitamins or minerals or supplements or tea extracts, nothing about vitamin C outside of "China found it useful" for a hot day or two. Instead, people were (and still are) told to self isolate until you really get sick, then go to the hospital where you disappear from family and friends, put on an IV of glucose and saline, and then mysteriously "treated" until you either come out or end up in ICU on a ventilator. That's not good.
    That's a good point. We don't hear enough about how to maintain good health and a strong immune system, one of the most important things in fighting any virus. Be strong. Don't get sick in the first place.

    But the advice about keeping distance from other humans was absolutely spot on.

    No matter what your immunity levels you can't get a virus you are not exposed to.

    Until we had the vaccines, distance has been truly our greatest defense.
    Not quite, because if your immune system is properly supplemented you either don't get the bug du jour or if you do you don't go critical.

    During the worse flu seasons in my life time, common sense told people to stay home if possible ... this meant schools, restaurants, theaters, clubs, your job. Mostly people did just that, and of course there were those who didn't, but the vast majority of the population survived and trundled on.

    Covid was treated like the Andromeda Strain because the powers that be KNEW what the Wuhan lab was doing because you had American companies outsourcing the research they weren't legally allowed to do here. It scared the hell out of them, and thus the sci-fi horror movie type response. IMHO, it created more problems and deaths than needed (keeping groups of people indoors without a U.V. filter on the ventilation system was a super spreader, i.e. retirement/nursing homes). Add to the mix these experimental gene therapy treatments posing as standard vaccines and we may be seeing more problems down the road.
    Last edited by Taichiliberal; 06-19-2021 at 03:18 PM.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

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  14. #102 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post


    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    I looked into that....even with the adjusted research numbers, two things stand out: how many of the cases tested BEFORE the rally, and when all is said and done, the numbers STILL DON'T constitute a documented "super spreader". In other words, nothing more uncommon than what would happen during a "regular" flu season. Check it out:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...st/3458606001/
    Maybe you can show me where an event led to 260,000 cases of the flu. Don't think so.
    That's the thing, Concart.....the 260 grand number is NOT accurate, as the article points out. So the basis of your question is flawed at best.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post
    We did an absolutely atrocious job at contact tracing (another utter failure of the Trump Administration) so it's much more difficult to pin down what a 'super spreader' event is. Anecdotally, when the beach bars here in Jacksonville reopened, there were dozens of cases that were traced to a couple of those bars. The infected were all young people, who went on to spread it to others, and Florida was a shit show for two months. Right now, there is a direct correlation between the percentage of people vaccinated in a state, and the positivity rate and new case rate. It is a statistical certainty. The vaccines work.

    As for Sturgis..... it was linked to 260,000 cases of the virus.

    https://khn.org/morning-breakout/stu...0-covid-cases/

    Any narrative that suggests that Covid is not a highly contagious and deadly disease that is spread more easily in the absence of mitigation measures is a lie. Period. Full stop.
    "estimates" and "may be" are not concrete facts....those words jumped out at me when I read through your link. And as always, no testing before the rally, so there is no way to know who was infected that went to the rally and exactly how many people contracted from them.

    Never said that this wasn't a contagious disease or that people didn't die from it. https://www.justplainpolitics.com/sh...90#post4492590
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    "estimates" and "may be" are not concrete facts....those words jumped out at me when I read through your link. And as always, no testing before the rally, so there is no way to know who was infected that went to the rally and exactly how many people contracted from them.

    Never said that this wasn't a contagious disease or that people didn't die from it. https://www.justplainpolitics.com/sh...90#post4492590
    No, but you are downplaying the need for vaccination. You are doing so in the face of statistical certainty that they work. I'm not sure why, but that's your narrative. It's false.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    That's the thing, Concart.....the 260 grand number is NOT accurate, as the article points out. So the basis of your question is flawed at best.
    As was your conclusion that this was no more contagious than a regular flu. That is false.

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