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Thread: General Patton Knew How To Win Wars

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Butler was a Marine. The USMC is America's foreign legion of a sort. They are our expeditionary force for fighting small wars overseas. During Butler's time, from the Boxer Rebellion in China into the 1930's, and with the exception of WW 1, the Marines were used as a political tool to push US foreign policy, often in the interests of corporations and robber barons who had the money to buy politicians.

    As for Patton, he was in the right war at the right time. I don't think he had the temperament for fighting the sort of low intensity wars we engage in today. Even in WW 2, Patton had his losses. At Metz Third Army was flummoxed for several months trying to take the German held fortifications around that city. In the end, they fell only by a combination of intense training of the units doing the fighting for over a month and the German replacement of the troops holding those forts with second- and third-rate dregs because the higher quality troops initially fighting there were needed elsewhere more urgently.

    For all intents, Patton lost at Metz against a fortified position he dismissed as obsolete and antiquated.

    When general Patton himself saying that we fought for the wrong side, you can't say that he was in the right war at the right time. Unless you meant that he was in the right war at the right time, but fighting for the wrong side. Next, what you said about the marines applies to the entire military. And look at the second Iraq war. All but two of the 9-11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia and we ended up attacking the biggest threat to Saudi Arabia. I'm sure the spirits of all of those hundreds of people who had to jump out of the windows and go splat on the cement weren't very pleased.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post
    General Patton did not fight a war that would be fought today. He would very likely be clueless.
    He'd know how to give you a good slap!

    Last edited by cancel2 2022; 12-04-2021 at 07:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by antiall View Post
    When general Patton himself saying that we fought for the wrong side, you can't say that he was in the right war at the right time. Unless you meant that he was in the right war at the right time, but fighting for the wrong side. Next, what you said about the marines applies to the entire military. And look at the second Iraq war. All but two of the 9-11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia and we ended up attacking the biggest threat to Saudi Arabia. I'm sure the spirits of all of those hundreds of people who had to jump out of the windows and go splat on the cement weren't very pleased.
    Actually you're wrong all the way around. Patton's quote, often paraphrased, was about the Soviet Union being the "real" enemy. Patton added that now that we'd kicked Germany's ass we should do the same to the Soviets. Patton in all that had no particular desire to join Germany in their cause but rather was just prioritizing the Soviets over Germany as an enemy.

    No, what I said about the Marines is accurate. The Army shows up second when the war is big enough to necessitate that. In the First Gulf War it was the Marines at sea in theater that were the first to arrive after Kuwait was invaded. The US Army then sent the 82nd Airborne the sole division they had available that was air mobile to reinforce the Marines. The 1st Marine Division deployed next as the Navy had the in house means to send it.
    It took the Army months to deploy their divisions in theater. Without land-based airfields, the USAF would have been reduced to a few long-range bombing raids and the Navy would have carried the brunt of the air war.

    The Army and Air Force are not set up for rapid deployment overseas for contingencies, the Marines and Navy are.

    As for the 9-11 terrorists, most may have been Saudis, but none were living in Saudi Arabia because they knew full well if they were they'd be arrested and tossed in prison because that government saw them for what they were: terrorists. So, they lived overseas. Bin Laden and Saddam Hussien had discussions (Bin Laden sent subordinates for the talks) about cooperating but didn't because of religious differences. That's why Bin Laden and Al Qaeda ended up in Afghanistan with the Taliban. The Taliban were Al Qaeda's kind of religious fanatic nutters. Saddam also helped fund the 9-11 terrorists so they could continue to pay for university training and live overseas even if Saddam wasn't in on their exact plan. Saddam funded many other terrorist groups too at the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Actually you're wrong all the way around. Patton's quote, often paraphrased, was about the Soviet Union being the "real" enemy. Patton added that now that we'd kicked Germany's ass we should do the same to the Soviets. Patton in all that had no particular desire to join Germany in their cause but rather was just prioritizing the Soviets over Germany as an enemy.

    No, what I said about the Marines is accurate. The Army shows up second when the war is big enough to necessitate that. In the First Gulf War it was the Marines at sea in theater that were the first to arrive after Kuwait was invaded. The US Army then sent the 82nd Airborne the sole division they had available that was air mobile to reinforce the Marines. The 1st Marine Division deployed next as the Navy had the in house means to send it.
    It took the Army months to deploy their divisions in theater. Without land-based airfields, the USAF would have been reduced to a few long-range bombing raids and the Navy would have carried the brunt of the air war.

    The Army and Air Force are not set up for rapid deployment overseas for contingencies, the Marines and Navy are.

    As for the 9-11 terrorists, most may have been Saudis, but none were living in Saudi Arabia because they knew full well if they were they'd be arrested and tossed in prison because that government saw them for what they were: terrorists. So, they lived overseas. Bin Laden and Saddam Hussien had discussions (Bin Laden sent subordinates for the talks) about cooperating but didn't because of religious differences. That's why Bin Laden and Al Qaeda ended up in Afghanistan with the Taliban. The Taliban were Al Qaeda's kind of religious fanatic nutters. Saddam also helped fund the 9-11 terrorists so they could continue to pay for university training and live overseas even if Saddam wasn't in on their exact plan. Saddam funded many other terrorist groups too at the time.

    You're the one who's wrong. Patton may not have liked the ruskies. Who would. But when you say that we fought the wrong enemy or that we fought for the wrong side, that is what he meant. Hitler wasn't the problem. Stalin was. Next, I don't care what branch of the military it is. I lump them all under the same heading. The military. As for the Saudi terrorists, what difference does it make where they were living. They were Saudi. That's enough. Next, there are three different kinds of muslims that I'm aware of. Sunni, Shia and Whhabi. Whhabi is mostly a Saudi thing. And from what I hear, the most fundamentalist of them all. Ever see the Saudi flag? That isn't an olive branch of peace on it. As for what Saddam may or may not have funded, who knows. They also said that he was making nuclear and chemical weapons. That turned out to not be the case either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by antiall View Post
    You're the one who's wrong. Patton may not have liked the ruskies. Who would. But when you say that we fought the wrong enemy or that we fought for the wrong side, that is what he meant. Hitler wasn't the problem. Stalin was. Next, I don't care what branch of the military it is. I lump them all under the same heading. The military. As for the Saudi terrorists, what difference does it make where they were living. They were Saudi. That's enough. Next, there are three different kinds of muslims that I'm aware of. Sunni, Shia and Whhabi. Whhabi is mostly a Saudi thing. And from what I hear, the most fundamentalist of them all. Ever see the Saudi flag? That isn't an olive branch of peace on it. As for what Saddam may or may not have funded, who knows. They also said that he was making nuclear and chemical weapons. That turned out to not be the case either.
    Hitler was no problem.
    He invaded & or declared war on most White nations.
    That includes the USA!

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    Quote Originally Posted by antiall View Post
    You're the one who's wrong. Patton may not have liked the ruskies. Who would. But when you say that we fought the wrong enemy or that we fought for the wrong side, that is what he meant. Hitler wasn't the problem. Stalin was. Next, I don't care what branch of the military it is. I lump them all under the same heading. The military. As for the Saudi terrorists, what difference does it make where they were living. They were Saudi. That's enough. Next, there are three different kinds of muslims that I'm aware of. Sunni, Shia and Whhabi. Whhabi is mostly a Saudi thing. And from what I hear, the most fundamentalist of them all. Ever see the Saudi flag? That isn't an olive branch of peace on it. As for what Saddam may or may not have funded, who knows. They also said that he was making nuclear and chemical weapons. That turned out to not be the case either.






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    Default From out of nowhere 1+1 started to = 3

    This one worked just fine. Ten to fifteen minutes and it was a done deal.



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    Patton is WAY overrated.
    Good at some things.
    Bad at others.

    He NEVER fought in a campaign (outside of early in Africa and during the Bulge) where he did not have complete and total air superiority.
    He fought nothing but a crumbling nation with massive fuel problems that was being bombed by day and night.
    All with gigantic superiorities in logistics/troops/equipment.

    Any idiot can win battles when he holds all the cards.
    It's winning when you don't that takes skill.

    Plus he was racist and INCREDIBLY anti-semitic.
    He fooled around on his wife like crazy, smacked a shell-shocked soldier and clearly cared more about his place in history than his troops.

    His Lorraine Campaign sucked.
    And he got hundreds of brave soldiers killed/wounded/captured trying to raid a POW camp (where he thought his son-in-law was) with barely a month left in the war.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Task_Force_Baum

    He was not only an overrated General who blabbed his way to fame.
    He was also a loser of a human being.
    Last edited by McRocket; 12-09-2021 at 12:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    Flanders is a poppy.
    A poppy is a pretty little flower.
    Flanders may have been short changed in the pretty department--
    I don't know--
    but as far as having a vegetative intellect level,
    that much we can see.
    Idiot!

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    Default HUH WUT!! You can’t get rid of him and he always knows better.

    Because he has this big melon head with a big brain inside.
    When ever he gets a headache. He’s forced to take the whole
    bottle of extra strength Tylenol.

    When were kids he had a bad case of acne and deam says
    to him. Yo! What happened, you got attacked by a Hershey bar?




    Let me be manipulative behind your back.



    One of his immediate relatives ended up in the cam.
    Now he works in the can.
    Now he got out of the can.
    He still works in the can.
    He lays low in the background.
    Who knows what plans he has in store.

    Timothy Kaczynski
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    What's it mean to resent someone?
    Resentment describes a negative emotional reaction to being mistreated. ... A person experiencing resentment will often feel a complex variety of emotions that include anger, disappointment, bitterness, and hard feelings. Resentment is commonly triggered by: Relationships with people who insist on being right all the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primavera View Post
    He'd know how to give you a good slap!

    What happened to Flanders, great poster!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flanders View Post
    This day marked their first taste of the “real thing.”
    This is the lie from which all the other lies come from. The Third Army was not going to see combat on D-Day. It was not preparing for combat on D-Day. It was not capable of combat on D-Day. Patton did not even know that D-Day was about to happen.

    The Third Army was a diversionary force meant to look like a real combat army, but not actually be a real combat army. The actual forces being used on D-Day was the First Army. Patton had received orders to have as much of the Third Army on leave as possible. They wanted the entire Third Army on the streets of England, so the Germans would think there was no attack about to happen.

    It was the easiest assignment given to any military commander, ever, and Patton failed at it. All he had to do was clear out the bases, and have his troops go get drunk. Instead, he grabbed over a thousand troops and gave them a rousing speech to make himself feel better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    Maybe that's why Truman couldn't allow him or MacArthur to retain command.
    Patton lost command because he died. Truman kept Patton in command of the Third even through Patton doing absolutely stupid things.

    MacArthur retained command for 6 years after Truman became President. Truman supported MacArthur even as MacArthur broke all rules for military command, not least of which running for political office while in uniform. Truman supported MacArthur through the worst defeat of American forces in the last 150 years. Truman supported MacArthur while MacArthur showed flagrant disrespect to the President, and the American system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    I didn't say Truman ordered anyone to be killed. I said Truman couldn't allow him or MacArthur to retain command.
    If you had said that Truman killed Patton, that would have made more sense. It would have been untrue, but would have made sense.

    Truman allowed MacArthur to retain command for 6 years. Not only allowed him to retain command, but actively gave him an exception to mandatory retirement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post
    General Patton did not fight a war that would be fought today. He would very likely be clueless.
    It is a fact that Patton had trouble following simple orders. That failure cost America then, but would cost America far more today.
    Daniel Patrick Moynihan said it best, "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."
    Paul Begala, "Politics is show business for ugly people."
    Stephen Colbert, "Reality has a well known liberal bias."

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