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Thread: Sigmund Freud vs. Carl Jung

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    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post
    Politics and religion have always mixed. Whether religion is simply a motivational tool, it is still a horrific use of religion for nefarious purposes.



    Have you being paying attention to #stopthesteal?



    But seriously, I disagree with that statement. How many people have been fooled for centuries by mythical stories of burning bushes and stone tablets. People are easily duped by belief in the Sky Guy.
    I agree that religion, nationalism, ethnic identification, natural resources can be used to motivate large groups of people to fight.

    Humans are tribal animals, and have been for two hundred thousand years. It is always possible to find some angle to stoke tribal grievances. That is just a reality of the human condition and I do not think it can be laid at the feet of Jesus.

    I just do not think that many people in the last four centuries are willing to die on the question of whether Jesus, Siddhartha Guatama, or Laozi had the better insight into transcendent truth. At least for the last 400 years, the true motivation for conflicts are natural resources, geopolitical hegemony, and nationalism.

    As for stone tablets and burning bushes they come from the Jewish bible. I am not sure why a lot of people get mad at Christianity for sacred Jewish scripture.

    The bible is supposed to be read metaphorically. That has been Christian doctrine for 1,700 years. It was not until the Protestant reformation and the rise of fundamentalist Protestantism that biblical literalism and biblical inerrancy became accepted practice in Protestant sects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I agree that religion, nationalism, ethnic identification, natural resources can be used to motivate large groups of people to fight.

    Humans are tribal animals, and have been for two hundred thousand years. It is always possible to find some angle to stoke tribal grievances. That is just a reality of the human condition and I do not think it can be laid at the feet of Jesus.

    I just do not think that many people in the last four centuries are willing to die on the question of whether Jesus, Siddhartha Guatama, or Laozi had the better insight into transcendent truth. At least for the last 400 years, the true motivation for conflicts are natural resources, geopolitical hegemony, and nationalism.

    As for stone tablets and burning bushes they come from the Jewish bible. I am not sure why a lot of people get mad at Christianity for sacred Jewish scripture.

    The bible is supposed to be read metaphorically. That has been Christian doctrine for 1,700 years. It was not until the Protestant reformation and the rise of fundamentalist Protestantism that biblical literalism and biblical inerrancy became accepted practice in Protestant sects.
    Agreed.

    To a large extent, I believe the top half of the IQ Bell Curve manipulates the bottom half.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Just like politics? I see people who spread twisted truths like "white privilege" and "gun deaths" to be dishonest fuckwads and sometimes pure evil. You?

    Yes on watching the BS over #StoptheSteal. What is 1% of 330M people? Hint: It's a big fucking number but still only 1 percent of the population. A fraction of that number is who believes Trump's #StoptheSteal bullshit. Notice how many JPPers risked their jobs and freedom by participating in the Insurrection. LOL

    IMO, it's more important to consider things as a matter of scale. 20,000 assholes attacking the Capitol must be resolved, but was our Republican really in danger of falling? No, it wasn't as we all saw. The moment the military told Trump the military wasn't part the process to resolve the election, Trump's Insurrection was doomed to failure.


    https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...-miller-2021-5
    Trump asked for troops to do 'whatever was necessary' to protect demonstrators who went on to storm the Capitol


    https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/28/polit...ion/index.html
    Top US general tells Congress the military won't play a role in the 2020 election
    "The Constitution and laws of the US and the states establish procedures for carrying out elections, and for resolving disputes over the outcome of elections ... I do not see the US military as part of this process," Milley said in a letter released on Friday responding to questions from two members of the House Armed Services Committee.

    "In the event of a dispute over some aspect of the elections, by law U.S. courts and the U.S. Congress are required to resolve any disputes, not the U.S. Military," Milley added.

    "I believe deeply in the principle of an apolitical U.S. military," Milley wrote.
    I think you are VASTLY underestimating how many people believe that Trump won the election. The polls says a full 50% of Republicans believe the big lie. And selling God is a lot easier than selling that bullshit. I don't want to get off topic, but the Trump phenomenon is much like religion, and the adherents are blind and willfully ignorant. They believe in ballots fed to chickens, Christians believe in people rising into the sky, parting the sea, and God resorting to scribbling on a napkin to tell everyone how to behave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post
    I think you are VASTLY underestimating how many people believe that Trump won the election. The polls says a full 50% of Republicans believe the big lie. And selling God is a lot easier than selling that bullshit. I don't want to get off topic, but the Trump phenomenon is much like religion, and the adherents are blind and willfully ignorant. They believe in ballots fed to chickens, Christians believe in people rising into the sky, parting the sea, and God resorting to scribbling on a napkin to tell everyone how to behave.
    Great. "50% of Republicans". What percentage of the voting population is that? How many people? About the same number of dumbasses who don't trust Trump's vaccine?

    Let's have fun with numbers:

    Total voting in 2020 - 158.4 million, about 67% turnout of eligible voters. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...for-president/

    Percentage of voters who are "Republican" - 29% https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-and-religion/

    29% of 158.4M = 45.94M Republicans (feel free to check my matter because I haven't finished my coffee. )

    50% of 45.94 = 23M dipshits.....most, if not all, on the backside of the IQ Bell Curve and/or education curve.

    While that's a big number, percentage wise, it's not. Over 300M Americans disagree with them, at least the other 100M+ who voted.

    For perspective consider US city populations: https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities
    New York City, NY (Population: 8,622,357)
    Los Angeles, CA (Population: 4,085,014)
    Chicago, IL (Population: 2,670,406)
    Houston, TX (Population: 2,378,146)
    Phoenix, AZ (Population: 1,743,469)
    Philadelphia, PA (Population: 1,590,402)



    Or State populations: https://www.infoplease.com/us/states...lation-by-rank
    1 California 39,512,223
    2 Texas 28,995,881
    3 Florida 21,477,737
    4 New York 19,453,561
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    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post
    I think you are VASTLY underestimating how many people believe that Trump won the election. The polls says a full 50% of Republicans believe the big lie. And selling God is a lot easier than selling that bullshit. I don't want to get off topic, but the Trump phenomenon is much like religion, and the adherents are blind and willfully ignorant. They believe in ballots fed to chickens, Christians believe in people rising into the sky, parting the sea, and God resorting to scribbling on a napkin to tell everyone how to behave.

    Any system that says belief causes truth is a fraud.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post
    Completely disagree. The Christian church was dragged, kicking and screaming into reform. The Renaissance happened despite Christianity not because of it. The only difference between Islam and Christianity is that one was forced to reform, the other has not yet done so.
    Cypress is a fundamentalist. I don't bother with him anymore.

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    I am just illustrating that the perception of a long standing, perpetual state of warfare between science and religion is totally overblown, and a serious misreading of history.

    No serious historians of science today accept the simplistic view of an essential or protracted “warfare” between science and religion.

    Christian theology developed certain methods, perspectives, and cultural environments key to modern scientific inquiry. The Christian Church has
    provided important institutional support (patronage) for studies of the natural world.

    Likewise, science has provided theology with a truer sense of man’s place in the natural world. Christian theology has proven itself remarkably flexible in its ability to adopt, adapt, and explore new scientic findings.

    - Professor Lawrence Principe, Historian of Science, Johns Hopkins University
    My thread was about the respective theories of religion of Carl Jung and Sigmund Freud. But if somebody wants to start a thread about the intellectual bankruptcy and corruption of Christian fundamentalists, I will chime in. I have a good working knowlege of corruption and crimes within historical Christian institutions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Great. "50% of Republicans". What percentage of the voting population is that? How many people? About the same number of dumbasses who don't trust Trump's vaccine?

    Let's have fun with numbers:

    Total voting in 2020 - 158.4 million, about 67% turnout of eligible voters. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...for-president/

    Percentage of voters who are "Republican" - 29% https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-and-religion/

    29% of 158.4M = 45.94M Republicans (feel free to check my matter because I haven't finished my coffee. )

    50% of 45.94 = 23M dipshits.....most, if not all, on the backside of the IQ Bell Curve and/or education curve.

    While that's a big number, percentage wise, it's not. Over 300M Americans disagree with them, at least the other 100M+ who voted.

    For perspective consider US city populations: https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities
    New York City, NY (Population: 8,622,357)
    Los Angeles, CA (Population: 4,085,014)
    Chicago, IL (Population: 2,670,406)
    Houston, TX (Population: 2,378,146)
    Phoenix, AZ (Population: 1,743,469)
    Philadelphia, PA (Population: 1,590,402)



    Or State populations: https://www.infoplease.com/us/states...lation-by-rank
    1 California 39,512,223
    2 Texas 28,995,881
    3 Florida 21,477,737
    4 New York 19,453,561
    I think that might still be short, but it's a significant number. And they are overrepresented due to the imbalanced representation in the Senate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I am just illustrating that the perception of a long standing, perpetual state of warfare between science and religion is totally overblown, and a serious misreading of history.



    My thread was about the respective theories of religion of Carl Jung and Sigmund Freud. But if somebody wants to start a thread about the intellectual bankruptcy and corruption of Christian fundamentalists, I will chime in. I have a good working knowlege of corruption and crimes within historical Christian institutions.
    Agreed. While there has been conflict in the past, most of the anti-religious types are conflating the radical religiosity of American Evangelicals and the Taliban with the vast majority of the world's billions of religious followers.

    Example; Most of JPP's RWNJs hate Muslims, think they're all murdering terrorists and want to see all of them dead. All 1.8 BILLION of them. For what? The actions of a few hundred thousand radical Jihadists? That's as fucking stupid as arresting all Trump voters for the Insurrection.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post
    I think that might still be short, but it's a significant number. And they are overrepresented due to the imbalanced representation in the Senate.
    How do you figure? Why did 74.2M American voters vote for Trump over Biden when there's only about 46M Republicans?

    Short answer: Because in a two-party system there's only two viable choices plus either staying home or voting Third Party (as I do). Most people pick one of the two main choices offered to them and, as you can see, the nation is split pretty much 50/50....just like Congress.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Agreed.

    To a large extent, I believe the top half of the IQ Bell Curve manipulates the bottom half.

    The tests are inaccurate

    They don’t test all types of intelligence fully and have racist components

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    How do you figure? Why did 74.2M American voters vote for Trump over Biden when there's only about 46M Republicans?

    Short answer: Because in a two-party system there's only two viable choices plus either staying home or voting Third Party (as I do). Most people pick one of the two main choices offered to them and, as you can see, the nation is split pretty much 50/50....just like Congress.
    Republican election cheating could explain a big part of That

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Agreed. While there has been conflict in the past, most of the anti-religious types are conflating the radical religiosity of American Evangelicals and the Taliban with the vast majority of the world's billions of religious followers.

    Example; Most of JPP's RWNJs hate Muslims, think they're all murdering terrorists and want to see all of them dead. All 1.8 BILLION of them. For what? The actions of a few hundred thousand radical Jihadists? That's as fucking stupid as arresting all Trump voters for the Insurrection.
    Well said.

    I have plenty of posts/threads illustrating the ignorance, repression, and unrestrained violence of Muslim and Christian fundamentalists.

    I just do not feel an obligation to be relentlessly and incessantly hostile to world Christianity and Islam, especially when I know better than that via my adventures in university higher education and historical scholarship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evince View Post
    The tests are inaccurate

    They don’t test all types of intelligence fully and have racist components
    So? Like most tests they are snapshots. If a 17 year old black kid from the ghetto can't read an IQ test then what makes anyone think they can read an engineering manual for a good job?
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