Was 2020 election stolen or not?

[LV426]

They were probably placed because of those who feared voter fraud. In a few cases the number of of voting precincts was reduced because they had so few voters and a shortage of poll workers. In some cases they eliminated individual precincts for county-wide voting to eliminate the problems for those moving from one precinct to another.

So this is an assumption you're making that is rooted in bad faith.

What voter fraud to "fear"?

Let's talk about that first.

We can't talk about any of these Voter ID laws without first talking about the motivation behind them, because if it turns out there is very little risk of fraud, then the motivation for these suppression laws is rooted in something else.

So let's have that talk right now; there is not nearly enough voter fraud to justify these barriers. There wasn't in 2020, there wasn't in 2018, there never has been.

If you think there is, then you need to prove it because I am rejecting the premise of election fraud to justify these barriers.

You need to stop treating disingenuous concern over voter fraud as legitimate. That's the biggest problem with this...not what they're doing, but what you, Flash, are personally doing for them.

[LV426]

Not for those who want to vote. That suppression claim was heard about voter ID and still not one voter has been identified who could not get an ID to vote (that I have found).

It doesn't matter if some people overcame it, Flash, what matters is that the suppression was done entirely in bad faith for the purpose of suppressing votes.

Why? Because there is no proof of the kind of widespread voter fraud these laws would protect against.

You are legitimizing an illegitimate position to the detriment of our democracy.

[LV426]

The biggest barrier to voting is registration. Should we also eliminate that?

No, we should make it universal and automatic, like they already do in:

AK
CA
CO
CT
DC
IL
ME
MD
MA
NJ
NM
NY
NV
OR
RI
VT
VA
WA
WV

[LV426]

People have to be motivated to vote no matter how easy it is

Right...so why make it more difficult?

I think the intense feelings for or against Trump had much more to do with 20 million new voters than ballot access. Voting by mail still involves many steps in most states and people have to really want to vote to complete that process.

Making more bad faith assumptions. And voting by mail was made easier during the pandemic. Hard to claw that back.

[ExpressLane]

Right...so why make it more difficult?




Making more bad faith assumptions. And voting by mail was made easier during the pandemic. Hard to claw that back.

People should have requested a ballot and sent a copy of their ID. Sending out unsolicited ballots is a recipe for fraud.

[ExpressLane]

It doesn't matter if some people overcame it, Flash, what matters is that the suppression was done entirely in bad faith for the purpose of suppressing votes.

Why? Because there is no proof of the kind of widespread voter fraud these laws would protect against.

You are legitimizing an illegitimate position to the detriment of our democracy.

Because people like you have resister any meaningful forensic audits to detect fraud. But that is changing.

[LV426]

People should have requested a ballot and sent a copy of their ID

Why?

There's no voter fraud to justify these ad hoc rules.

You claimed there was, but then couldn't provide that evidence, then you goaded people on into acting on that absence of proof on 1/6 while you were sitting at home on JPP egging them on.

What a fucking loser.

[LV426]

Sending out unsolicited ballots is a recipe for fraud.

The only fraud is the lie that unsolicited ballots are a recipe for fraud.

Five states send out unsolicited mail-in ballots, and none of those states reported any fraud in 2020.

Seems like all the fraud was done by Trump voters, or Trump himself, or people like anatta:

I didn't ask for a mail in, I would have never known it was sent except my Russian neighbor
( who values American democracy more then most Americans) was kind enough to bring it over
return postage paid envelope included.. what could possibly go wrong??

^^^THAT is election fraud.

[Flash]

So this is an assumption you're making that is rooted in bad faith.

What voter fraud to "fear"?

Let's talk about that first.

We can't talk about any of these Voter ID laws without first talking about the motivation behind them, because if it turns out there is very little risk of fraud, then the motivation for these suppression laws is rooted in something else.

So let's have that talk right now; there is not nearly enough voter fraud to justify these barriers. There wasn't in 2020, there wasn't in 2018, there never has been.

If you think there is, then you need to prove it because I am rejecting the premise of election fraud to justify these barriers.

You need to stop treating disingenuous concern over voter fraud as legitimate. That's the biggest problem with this...not what they're doing, but what you, Flash, are personally doing for them.

It was not my assumption. It was one assumption of those who supported changing voter laws. As usual, you try to attribute things to the poster that he never said or believed. You create a straw man to argue with. You asked why those laws were passed and I gave you one reason as expressed by those supporting the law.

Read carefully and you will see that I never said I thought those laws were needed. I did say any existing laws people were yelling about "suppressing" the vote actually saw increased turnout in 2018 and 2020. You try to put everybody in two extreme camps if they do not agree with every liberal claim.

Don't be so simplistic. Trying to explain complex events with single variable answers is not good science and never adequate.

[ExpressLane]

Why?

There's no voter fraud to justify these ad hoc rules.

You claimed there was, but then couldn't provide that evidence, then you goaded people on into acting on that absence of proof on 1/6 while you were sitting at home on JPP egging them on.

What a fucking loser.

If you don't look will never find fraud. There are MANY affidavits from Republicans and Democrats alleging voter fraud.

[LV426]

Because people like you have resister any meaningful forensic audits to detect fraud. But that is changing.

I really doubt the people who were so stupid that Trump conned them into toiling his baggage for the rest of their lives, would be able to even identify fraud, much less spell it.

You said the election was stolen, but then were too scared to go to DC to do anything about it.

Must be because you don't believe the election was stolen, you're just pretending it was for the sake of your JPP character.

[LV426]

It was not my assumption

Yes, it very literally was your assumption, Flash.

[TTQ64]

no, but the 2016 election definitely was

sho was

that thang wasnt really president he couldnt even spell

[ExpressLane]

I really doubt the people who were so stupid that Trump conned them into toiling his baggage for the rest of their lives, would be able to even identify fraud, much less spell it.

You said the election was stolen, but then were too scared to go to DC to do anything about it.

Must be because you don't believe the election was stolen, you're just pretending it was for the sake of your JPP character.

And you didn't go defend the Capital from what you said was an insurrection and attempted coup.

[Flash]

Yes, it very literally was your assumption, Flash.

No, it was not an assumption on my part. If you don't think many of the Republicans who wanted those laws passed do not believe there was voter fraud then you have been blind and deaf.

Whether it is true is irrelevant. You asked why they did it. I gave you one reason.

By the way, it is the South Central states that did not change voter access laws and did not see a big increase in mail-in voting and yet saw increased turnout.