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Thread: Are Newsmax, OANN, and Fox Media threats to American Democracy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Did you support Trump's Insurrection? Or are you denying it was more than a tourist visits where everyone was respectful of the seat of the US government and those brave men and women assigned to protect it?

    https://www.npr.org/2021/06/18/10082...6-capitol-riot

    Ignoring your complex and leading questions as such, the answer is no, I didn't support the capitol riot on Jan 6. It wasn't an "insurrection" as no one--not a single person--has been charged with that crime. I also don't support the rioting all summer of Antifa, BLM, and related groups across the US that did over a thousand times more property damage, far more injuries to persons and police, and losses to business in the form of both property destruction and looting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Ignoring your complex and leading questions as such, the answer is no, I didn't support the capitol riot on Jan 6. It wasn't an "insurrection" as no one--not a single person--has been charged with that crime. I also don't support the rioting all summer of Antifa, BLM, and related groups across the US that did over a thousand times more property damage, far more injuries to persons and police, and losses to business in the form of both property destruction and looting.
    I'm not a fucking lawyer nor do I play one on the Internet. You can call it a "Tea Party" if you like. <---See what I did there? LOL

    The fact remains these fucking assholes tried to overthrow the government for Trump and Trump encouraged them. What is proved in court remains to be seen.
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    I'm not a fucking lawyer nor do I play one on the Internet. You can call it a "Tea Party" if you like. <---See what I did there? LOL

    The fact remains these fucking assholes tried to overthrow the government for Trump and Trump encouraged them. What is proved in court remains to be seen.
    Then why were none of them charged with that?

    Here, go through the official list of those charged...

    https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases

    I have. Nobody is charged with treason, insurrection, or anything like that. Most are charged with simple trespass and disorderly conduct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Then why were none of them charged with that?

    Here, go through the official list of those charged...

    https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases

    I have. Nobody is charged with treason, insurrection, or anything like that. Most are charged with simple trespass and disorderly conduct.
    I don't know and, TBH, don't really care. All I know for sure is that all of them are fucked.

    Most were fucked to begin with because of their mental issues. Some will be doing some really serious hard time. I doubt the judges will be lenient with the violent ones or those who came prepared to be violent and attack Congress. Premeditation carries a huge multiplier with it.

    Donovan Ray Crowl is a militia leader whose family knew he's been going around the bend for several years. His mother and sister acknowledged it and admitted there was nothing that could be done about it.

    Notice that most of those arrested conveniently uploaded the evidence per Trump's orders. LOL

    This isn't going away just because Trump or the Republicans don't like it.

    https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/defe...wl-donovan-ray

    https://www.justice.gov/opa/page/file/1356106/download
    https://www.facebook.com/WBNS10TV/po...9823831769369/

    https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/c...NZJ3ZJN2IBPGE/
    He is accused of conspiring and participating in a riot designed to prevent Congress from certifying the presidential election for President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris.

    He is charged with nine other defendants in the case, including fellow Champaign County resident Jessica Watkins.

    Prosecutors also say that Crowl and Watkins are members of the Oath Keepers, a group that believes the government has been taken over “by a shadowy conspiracy that is trying to strip American citizens of their rights.”

    Prosecutors said Crowl held a leadership role with the Oath Keepers, while the defense denied Crowl being associated with the Oath Keepers at all.
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    I don't know and, TBH, don't really care. All I know for sure is that all of them are fucked.

    Most were fucked to begin with because of their mental issues. Some will be doing some really serious hard time. I doubt the judges will be lenient with the violent ones or those who came prepared to be violent and attack Congress. Premeditation carries a huge multiplier with it.

    Donovan Ray Crowl is a militia leader whose family knew he's been going around the bend for several years. His mother and sister acknowledged it and admitted there was nothing that could be done about it.

    Notice that most of those arrested conveniently uploaded the evidence per Trump's orders. LOL

    This isn't going away just because Trump or the Republicans don't like it.

    https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/defe...wl-donovan-ray

    https://www.justice.gov/opa/page/file/1356106/download
    https://www.facebook.com/WBNS10TV/po...9823831769369/

    https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/c...NZJ3ZJN2IBPGE/
    He is accused of conspiring and participating in a riot designed to prevent Congress from certifying the presidential election for President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris.

    He is charged with nine other defendants in the case, including fellow Champaign County resident Jessica Watkins.

    Prosecutors also say that Crowl and Watkins are members of the Oath Keepers, a group that believes the government has been taken over “by a shadowy conspiracy that is trying to strip American citizens of their rights.”

    Prosecutors said Crowl held a leadership role with the Oath Keepers, while the defense denied Crowl being associated with the Oath Keepers at all.
    Actually, about 80 to 90% will plea out to misdemeanor charges and get a slap on the wrist, the other 10% will be split between those that have enough resources to go to trial or face serious charges. The ones that go to trial will mostly end up being dropped as the government won't have a solid case against them. The others in this group facing serious charges will plea out to a single felony and do minimum security time of maybe a year or two at most.

    Federal persecutors don't want trials. They damn sure don't want one where the defendant and their lawyer is demanding discovery like all--ALL--of the security camera recorded video, all 14,000 hours of it. The persecutor will know that that is going to open a huge can of worms politically and is to be avoided. Better to let one defendant walk than have ammunition made public to let dozens, possibly up to a hundred or more, walk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Actually, about 80 to 90% will plea out to misdemeanor charges and get a slap on the wrist, the other 10% will be split between those that have enough resources to go to trial or face serious charges. The ones that go to trial will mostly end up being dropped as the government won't have a solid case against them. The others in this group facing serious charges will plea out to a single felony and do minimum security time of maybe a year or two at most.

    Federal persecutors don't want trials. They damn sure don't want one where the defendant and their lawyer is demanding discovery like all--ALL--of the security camera recorded video, all 14,000 hours of it. The persecutor will know that that is going to open a huge can of worms politically and is to be avoided. Better to let one defendant walk than have ammunition made public to let dozens, possibly up to a hundred or more, walk.
    We can wager on it or simply wait for the sentencings to begin. Regardless, most of these dipshits have certainly been fired from their jobs if they had one. Any plea is a guilty plea. They'll carry that record for the rest of their lives...not that many of them were going to become VPs of Fortune 500 companies. LOL

    How many have a previous record? Weapons charges? Public disturbance in other protests? These idiots are fucked with a capital "F".


    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...me-jan-6-cases
    As prosecutors close in on charging 500 people with joining the Jan. 6 insurrection at the US Capitol, just how much prison time — or how little — alleged rioters are facing is starting to become clear.

    Defendants who plead guilty to some of the most serious crimes, like assaulting police or carrying a weapon into the Capitol, are facing an average baseline sentence between three to four years behind bars; that could go up depending on the level of violence or down if the person cooperates, among other factors. Defendants hit with a nonviolent felony, such as obstructing Congress, are looking at an average baseline of around a year and a half. And federal law caps sentences for misdemeanors such as disorderly conduct and protesting in the Capitol between six months and a year, which means first-time offenders who cut a deal could argue for no prison time at all.
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    We can wager on it or simply wait for the sentencings to begin. Regardless, most of these dipshits have certainly been fired from their jobs if they had one. Any plea is a guilty plea. They'll carry that record for the rest of their lives...not that many of them were going to become VPs of Fortune 500 companies. LOL

    How many have a previous record? Weapons charges? Public disturbance in other protests? These idiots are fucked with a capital "F".


    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...me-jan-6-cases
    As prosecutors close in on charging 500 people with joining the Jan. 6 insurrection at the US Capitol, just how much prison time — or how little — alleged rioters are facing is starting to become clear.

    Defendants who plead guilty to some of the most serious crimes, like assaulting police or carrying a weapon into the Capitol, are facing an average baseline sentence between three to four years behind bars; that could go up depending on the level of violence or down if the person cooperates, among other factors. Defendants hit with a nonviolent felony, such as obstructing Congress, are looking at an average baseline of around a year and a half. And federal law caps sentences for misdemeanors such as disorderly conduct and protesting in the Capitol between six months and a year, which means first-time offenders who cut a deal could argue for no prison time at all.
    Only 2% of federal criminal defendants go to trial, and most who do are found guilty
    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...t%20to%20trial.

    Like in Vegas you play the odds...

    Since the great majority of the 500+ charged are looking at misdemeanor charges for trespass and disturbing the peace, most will do little or no time in prison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...t%20to%20trial.

    Like in Vegas you play the odds...

    Since the great majority of the 500+ charged are looking at misdemeanor charges for trespass and disturbing the peace, most will do little or no time in prison.
    Agreed. They'll go back to their former employer with their guilty plea of attacking the Capitol and ask for their job back. LOL

    I used to love Vegas. It taught me a lot. I was at MCAS Tustin and was a 3 hour drive away. I'd go about once a quarter.
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    It's not going to happen because parents do not WANT it to happen. Hell, in some school districts they don't even want their kids to learn basic things like sex ed and/or basic science like evolution. They certainly don't want them to learn to question authority, which is what critical thinking boils down to. If you teach them that, why they might start questioning YOUR authority, or the words in the Bible, and we can't have *that,* now can we?

    ""Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority."" -- Texas GOP (source: https://www.austinchronicle.com/dail...ical-thinking/ )
    Knowing the proper timing of when to question authority is key. We have demonstrations every day now because someone with a long criminal history can't follow simple directions to remain still with no sudden actions.

    I think environment plays a huge difference in what people see as fact. Someone living in NYC, San Francisco, Chicago, or LA are never going to see the same picture as someone living in a small rural community or small metro as laws, taxes, and other policies are all different. I live in a small community and do not see the inflated taxes, strange polices (example -citizens can't pump their own gas) or inflated material costs due to taxes on services and those materials. One's factual view greatly depends on where they live and the policies/laws/environment they work and live in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAGA View Post
    Knowing the proper timing of when to question authority is key. We have demonstrations every day now because someone with a long criminal history can't follow simple directions to remain still with no sudden actions.

    I think environment plays a huge difference in what people see as fact. Someone living in NYC, San Francisco, Chicago, or LA are never going to see the same picture as someone living in a small rural community or small metro as laws, taxes, and other policies are all different. I live in a small community and do not see the inflated taxes, strange polices (example -citizens can't pump their own gas) or inflated material costs due to taxes on services and those materials. One's factual view greatly depends on where they live and the policies/laws/environment they work and live in.
    I agree that we have different points of view depending on where we grew up and where we live now, plus our life experiences. Even so, this doesn't address the fear and anger that many RWers feel when discussing things like the teaching of critical thinking, race and racism, evolution, etc.

    Your first sentence shows nothing more than the huge gulf between privileged whites and not-so-privileged people of color. You boiled down the establishment's murder of unarmed black men to a simplistic talking point. This is why propaganda outlets like the media mentioned in the thread title truly *are* dangerous to America. You want those annoying demonstrations to go away? Then try listening to what the protesters are saying, try to walk in their shoes. Keep your face and mind in their safe place -- those same RW media that tell you what you want to hear -- and you will continue to be watching from the sidelines, rather than being part of the solution to our issues.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals." -- Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    I agree that we have different points of view depending on where we grew up and where we live now, plus our life experiences. Even so, this doesn't address the fear and anger that many RWers feel when discussing things like the teaching of critical thinking, race and racism, evolution, etc.

    Your first sentence shows nothing more than the huge gulf between privileged whites and not-so-privileged people of color. You boiled down the establishment's murder of unarmed black men to a simplistic talking point. This is why propaganda outlets like the media mentioned in the thread title truly *are* dangerous to America. You want those annoying demonstrations to go away? Then try listening to what the protesters are saying, try to walk in their shoes. Keep your face and mind in their safe place -- those same RW media that tell you what you want to hear -- and you will continue to be watching from the sidelines, rather than being part of the solution to our issues.
    more than 90% of shootings involve a person not obeying simple directions, Policemen are trained to go home at night meaning they can't/won't wait to see what is coming out of a pocket, glove compartment, or from under the seat. I guarantee you would not wait either, no person can unless you are saying law enforcement lives are worth less. We have two policeman in our family and I wouldn't want that job for 10 times what i make. If you have a criminal back ground and they know who you are, you damn well be tter be still and not move suddenly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAGA View Post
    more than 90% of shootings involve a person not obeying simple directions, Policemen are trained to go home at night meaning they can't/won't wait to see what is coming out of a pocket, glove compartment, or from under the seat. I guarantee you would not wait either, no person can unless you are saying law enforcement lives are worth less. We have two policeman in our family and I wouldn't want that job for 10 times what i make. If you have a criminal back ground and they know who you are, you damn well be tter be still and not move suddenly.
    Once again, you are deflecting.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals." -- Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Once again, you are deflecting.
    no just stating a fact from a policemans point of view which you choose to ignore

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    This thread has gone a bit off topic. The issue here is are these media sources honest news sources. Do they cover topics fairly or do they simply present one POV? Watching them is an exercise in propaganda. I watch them and with very few exceptions their reporting is biased right wing constantly finding fault with Pres Biden etc. Criticism is ok but when that is all you do. you are not a news source.

    'Democrats question TV carriers' decisions to host Fox, OAN and Newsmax, citing 'misinformation'

    'The lawmakers sent letters to AT&T, Verizon, Roku, Amazon, Apple, Comcast, Charter, DISH, Cox, Altice, Hulu and Alphabet.'

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...rmation-470863
    Wanna make America great, buy American owned, made in the USA, we do. AF Veteran, INFJ-A, I am not PC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAGA View Post
    Knowing the proper timing of when to question authority is key.
    This is the heart of the matter. There is a time and place to fight city hall, but it has to be the right time and the right place.

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