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Thread: Are Newsmax, OANN, and Fox Media threats to American Democracy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Agreed. Not to mention that it wasn't the JPP members who caught the factcheckers, but other media or factcheckers.

    It's good to be skeptical, but, to paraphrase Prof. Walter Kotschnig, not so skeptical one's brains fall out.
    I wonder if they are even aware that those factchecks always analyze the facts with references and where the misinformation are coming from.

    So genetic fallacy doesn't apply here.
    THAT IS AN ASTUTE OBSERVATION I EXPECT FROM YOU.
    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Only religions use supporting evidence. Science doesn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Hypothesis come out of theories, not theories out of hypothesis.

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    Dutch Uncle (06-09-2021)

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    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    I wonder if they are even aware that those factchecks always analyze the facts with references and where the misinformation are coming from.

    So genetic fallacy doesn't apply here.
    They're "skeptical". LOL

    I wish that were true, but it isn't. Genetic fallacies are often the first line of attack which is why I like to use a Fox News reference when dealing with a Trumpazoid and CNN or MSNBC for a Democrat. It helps cut the bullshit.
    Stripping Americans of their rights, regardless if inalienable or unenumerated, is against American ideals

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    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    legion:

    Mayor de Blasio on March 5th:
    Coronavirus fears shouldn’t keep New Yorkers off subways


    Cuomo on March 18th:
    “That is not going to happen, shelter in place, for New York City. I wouldn’t approve shelter in place.”



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    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    I find it very interesting that if one was to ask others why they doubt factcheckers, all they could come up with maybe one or two examples of erroneous factchecking.
    I also find it very interesting that the same people think factcheckers are too biased because their favorite RW media says so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Agreed. Not to mention that it wasn't the JPP members who caught the factcheckers, but other media or factcheckers.

    It's good to be skeptical, but, to paraphrase Prof. Walter Kotschnig, not so skeptical one's brains fall out.
    Mayor de Blasio on March 5th:
    Coronavirus fears shouldn’t keep New Yorkers off subways


    Cuomo on March 18th:
    “That is not going to happen, shelter in place, for New York City. I wouldn’t approve shelter in place.”



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    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    I find it very interesting that if one was to ask others why they doubt factcheckers, all they could come up with maybe one or two examples of erroneous factchecking.
    I also find it very interesting that the same people think factcheckers are too biased because their favorite RW media says so.
    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    I wonder if they are even aware that those factchecks always analyze the facts with references and where the misinformation are coming from.

    So genetic fallacy doesn't apply here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    They're "skeptical". LOL

    I wish that were true, but it isn't. Genetic fallacies are often the first line of attack which is why I like to use a Fox News reference when dealing with a Trumpazoid and CNN or MSNBC for a Democrat. It helps cut the bullshit.
    Mayor de Blasio on March 5th:
    Coronavirus fears shouldn’t keep New Yorkers off subways


    Cuomo on March 18th:
    “That is not going to happen, shelter in place, for New York City. I wouldn’t approve shelter in place.”



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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    That's a good picture of what you look like posting. Simple, stupid and playing with yourself.
    Stripping Americans of their rights, regardless if inalienable or unenumerated, is against American ideals

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    That's a good picture of what you look like posting. Simple, stupid and playing with yourself.
    The definition of I R O N Y! Buy a mirror you sad, pathetic asswhipe.

    Mayor de Blasio on March 5th:
    Coronavirus fears shouldn’t keep New Yorkers off subways


    Cuomo on March 18th:
    “That is not going to happen, shelter in place, for New York City. I wouldn’t approve shelter in place.”



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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    The definition of I R O N Y! Buy a mirror you sad, pathetic asswhipe.

    Dude, you're the one constantly pissing your Depends with oversized, colored font and other Drama Queen antics.

    Stripping Americans of their rights, regardless if inalienable or unenumerated, is against American ideals

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Dude, you're the one constantly pissing your Depends with oversized, colored font and other Drama Queen antics.

    Mayor de Blasio on March 5th:
    Coronavirus fears shouldn’t keep New Yorkers off subways


    Cuomo on March 18th:
    “That is not going to happen, shelter in place, for New York City. I wouldn’t approve shelter in place.”



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    Darn, this thread went downhill. Back on topic:

    There is a serious issue here, Fox OAN Newsmax are propaganda sites full of lies and an unbalanced reporting of the daily happening of politics etc in America and the world. Their viewers are misinformed, lied too really. While education matters, a fair and balanced media helps everyone understand important issues.

    Going forward it is important Americans call a spade a spade. The republican party today is fascist and not democratic. Democracy does not appeal to fascists. That is clearly evident in the lack of support for an investigation about Jan 6th. Thankfully our DOJ is doing the hard work. Money manages the republican party and the irony is many in the working class by into their lies.

    I watch Newsmax and OAN more frequently than Fox. All distort and are one sided, finger pointing only, it is time to call them the 'woke fascists' they are, who see everything through biased glasses and work to hurt and cripple our democracy. Why and for whom, is the hard question but you know what they say about money.


    "First, democracy is more than holding elections; it requires the development of civil society, meaning such complex and counterintuitive institutions as the rule of law, an independent judiciary, multiple political parties, minority rights, voluntary associations, freedom of expression, movement, and assembly. Democracy is a learned habit, not an instinctive one, that requires deep attitudinal changes such as a culture of restraint, a commonality of values, a respect for differences of view, the concept of loyal opposition, and a sense of civic responsibility." Daniel Pipes

    "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." Isaac Asimov


    See links for 'Failed Fact Checks'

    Newsmax https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/newsmax/

    OAN https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/one-a...-news-network/


    'The Republican revolt against democracy, explained in 13 charts'

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...racy-13-charts
    Wanna make America great, buy American owned, made in the USA, We do.

    Conservative Liberal - PS I am not PC.

    "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it." Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    I have, but thanks for the advice. Be sure you remain skeptical too since your factcheckers are human too.

    BTW, which one said Media Bias or Politifact was "badly biased"? I couldn't find it in either one.

    The bottom line here is for the individual to use critical thinking to determine what is most likely fact and what is most likely bullshit. Media Bias is a good reference, but I still give it leeway. When it says a source is centered, left or right, I give it a little range for bias. Obviously Fox news isn't really LW and CNN isn't RW. How far Right or Left is can be seen for oneself by watching them.

    Or do you rigorously beleive your own sources as coming down for God or Trump himself?
    Absolutely! But at least I'm paying enough attention to do that. Most people, and particularly those that lean Left simply see agreement with their own views in what these fact checkers say and accept their judgement at face value. That is, they question nothing and accept everything because it jibes with their own prejudices.

    Me? These fact checkers are all a bunch of idiot liberal arts majors that wouldn't know what Ʃx in a statistical analysis was for. It's all Greek to them. Their intellect is an inch deep and a centimeter wide. I don't buy anything they say on the face of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Absolutely! But at least I'm paying enough attention to do that. Most people, and particularly those that lean Left simply see agreement with their own views in what these fact checkers say and accept their judgement at face value. That is, they question nothing and accept everything because it jibes with their own prejudices.

    Me? These fact checkers are all a bunch of idiot liberal arts majors that wouldn't know what Ʃx in a statistical analysis was for. It's all Greek to them. Their intellect is an inch deep and a centimeter wide. I don't buy anything they say on the face of it.
    My guess is that blaming the "MSM" is wrong. You nailed it with "most people", be they watching CNN, Fox or Trump's former Twitter feed. People need to be held accountable for their actions as individuals instead of blaming others like the "MSM".

    As you and I are discussing they need to educate themselves enough to understand what is fact and what is opinion.

    That said, I think it would be best for our nation if kids were taught how to think in schools instead of what to think.
    Stripping Americans of their rights, regardless if inalienable or unenumerated, is against American ideals

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    That said, I think it would be best for our nation if kids were taught how to think in schools instead of what to think.
    Well, you can take it to the bank that anything in education today with the word "critical" in front of it is designed to do the exact opposite of teaching children to think for themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Well, you can take it to the bank that anything in education today with the word "critical" in front of it is designed to do the exact opposite of teaching children to think for themselves.
    I'm not quite that cynical yet. Maybe in five years.
    Stripping Americans of their rights, regardless if inalienable or unenumerated, is against American ideals

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    I'm not quite that cynical yet. Maybe in five years.
    I'm already there. It started with the "Raza Studies" program in the TUSD:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/raza-st...erican-values/

    Liam Julian at Flypaper points out that teachers who teach the courses with a Mexican-American perspective in Tucson are invited to attend a seminar in which they work with leading scholars in the areas of “Latino critical race theory, critical race theory, critical multicultural education, Chicana/o studies, ethnic studies, cultural studies, critical pedagogy, and critical race pedagogy.” He concludes: “It’s incredible.”
    https://www.edweek.org/education/con...tucson/2008/07

    This was 2008, over a decade ago.

    Raza Studies was an early Critical Pedagogy / Critical Race Theory program that radicalized the students. The teachers were Leftist radicals. Although much of the stuff that was available on the internet back then is no longer there (a big problem with our increasingly ephemeral digital world), the program held summer seminars to teach the teachers. The guest speakers were a who's who of the most radical Leftist Socialists and Communists in university education programs.

    I worked with a reporter from the Arizona Republic, Doug MacEachern, on this including feeding him a detailed analysis of their bogus statistics on the program's effectiveness.

    I went head-to-head with a couple of the teachers back then on the Arizona Republic's website and message boards. They were royally pissed over people not siding with them. Their argument was essentially I'm a teacher in the program so I know better than some random person what's going on with it... never offering a shred of evidence beyond that. They were defending the indefensible and they knew it.

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