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Thread: There Was Trump-Russia Collusion — And Trump Pardoned The Colluder

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Omar View Post
    It’s a joke that Russians could affect an Electoral outcome using social media.

    At least compared to the ‘cabal that fortified’ this last election. THAT was some world class election meddling. And you’re right that the Russians objective was to ‘sow division’—it was in Mullets report. And with that—they hit a home run.

    They nearly removed a president with it.
    Saying the Russians influenced votes is like those who claim money influences votes. They are convinced it is true but never admit to money (or Russians) having influenced their own vote---but they are sure it influences others.

    Like the absence of evidence of Russian meddling affecting votes, there is also lack of any evidence of voter fraud. Many of the claims we can easily disprove.

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    Hello Flash,

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Did the Russian collusion change your vote?
    "I have no business dealings in Russia."

    Except at least a beauty pageant and a documented attempt to build a Moscow tower, and probably a lot of dirty money loans from very corrupt Russian oligarchs...
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Hello Darth,

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Omar View Post
    It’s a joke that Russians could affect an Electoral outcome using social media.

    At least compared to the ‘cabal that fortified’ this last election. THAT was some world class election meddling. And you’re right that the Russians objective was to ‘sow division’—it was in Mullets report. And with that—they hit a home run.

    They nearly removed a president with it.
    Disagree. All Trump needed was a very small push, a little help to get over the top. He just barely squeaked by in the 2016 election.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Flash,

    "I have no business dealings in Russia."

    Except at least a beauty pageant and a documented attempt to build a Moscow tower, and probably a lot of dirty money loans from very corrupt Russian oligarchs...
    You sound like the Republicans talking about Hunter and Joe Biden taking money from China. Smearing dirt on opponents.

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    Hello Flash,

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Saying the Russians influenced votes is like those who claim money influences votes. They are convinced it is true but never admit to money (or Russians) having influenced their own vote---but they are sure it influences others.

    Like the absence of evidence of Russian meddling affecting votes, there is also lack of any evidence of voter fraud. Many of the claims we can easily disprove.
    Agreed on the voter fraud but disagreed on the money influencing elections.

    Of course it does.

    How many times have we seen a Democrat leading in the polls up until a few weeks out, then a huge PR campaign by Republicans suddenly swings the polls and the Republican wins?

    Happens all the time in swing states.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Flash,

    Agreed on the voter fraud but disagreed on the money influencing elections.

    Of course it does.

    How many times have we seen a Democrat leading in the polls up until a few weeks out, then a huge PR campaign by Republicans suddenly swings the polls and the Republican wins?

    Happens all the time in swing states.
    Which candidate(s) did money convince you to vote for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Saying the Russians influenced votes is like those who claim money influences votes. They are convinced it is true but never admit to money (or Russians) having influenced their own vote---but they are sure it influences others.

    Like the absence of evidence of Russian meddling affecting votes, there is also lack of any evidence of voter fraud. Many of the claims we can easily disprove.
    Voter fraud is at least tangible so it can be quantified. As for evidence of it, it’s a matter of scale: there’s a degree of fraud in every election.
    Coup has started. First of many steps. Impeachment will follow ultimately~WB attorney Mark Zaid, January 2017

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    I understand that, but I'm not convinced it had much effect. Anybody can post on social media and I'm sure there were as many Americans posting anti-Hillary messages as the Russians. We don't know if those had any effect or whether a voter was influenced by an American or Russian post.

    I'm more likely to believe, as our intelligence reported, that Russia was trying to cause division and confusion as a bigger reason for the interference than just electing Trump. We are certainly more likely to believe myriad conspiracy theories today than before.
    Russia has bigger problems then sowing divisions.. Im sure there were small efforts like FB bots
    (all nations do this)
    but the grand Russian hoax, the Internet Research Agency being a "Russian gov't proxie" and such were simply IC lies
    I mean if they are gonna lie to FISA court -why stop there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Omar View Post
    Voter fraud is at least tangible so it can be quantified. As for evidence of it, it’s a matter of scale: there’s a degree of fraud in every election.
    it's hard to define as well.
    is ballot harvesting and mass mailout and reduced sig verification fraud? not purging voter roles?
    changing the times on postmarks without approval from state legislatures?
    I think they are

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Flash,



    Agreed on the voter fraud but disagreed on the money influencing elections.

    Of course it does.

    How many times have we seen a Democrat leading in the polls up until a few weeks out, then a huge PR campaign by Republicans suddenly swings the polls and the Republican wins?

    Happens all the time in swing states.
    That’s because polls are just another way to influence elections lol. Polls are consistently weighted towards democrats early in the campaign but they tend to tighten up closer to the election because at the end of the day the pollsters don’t want to be too far on the actual election.

    Which is kind of the subtext to the supposed Russian influence: sure, Russians ‘influenced’ the 2016 election. But Russian influence was reduced to background noise by all the other influences and influencers. The most powerful election influencer is the media.

    And democrats all but own the media—outright.
    Coup has started. First of many steps. Impeachment will follow ultimately~WB attorney Mark Zaid, January 2017

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Darth Omar For This Post:

    anatta (05-07-2021)

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    it's hard to define as well.
    is ballot harvesting and mass mailout and reduced sig verification fraud? not purging voter roles?
    changing the times on postmarks without approval from state legislatures?
    I think they are
    No arguing that, but proving it is another issue.

    My point is those are tangible things as opposed to the nearly ethereal Russian influence via social media. How is it possible to prove how many votes were flipped by that?
    Coup has started. First of many steps. Impeachment will follow ultimately~WB attorney Mark Zaid, January 2017

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Darth Omar For This Post:

    anatta (05-07-2021)

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    Hello Flash,

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Which candidate(s) did money convince you to vote for?
    Nice try, but this isn't about me. I am not an average voter. I am well informed. The average voter can't even name the three branches of government.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Omar View Post
    No arguing that, but proving it is another issue.

    My point is those are tangible things as opposed to the nearly ethereal Russian influence via social media. How is it possible to prove how many votes were flipped by that?
    cant prove it because courts wont hear it.
    either it's "not substantive" or "no standing" or whatever..

    And if we cant stop HR1 this will look like childs play

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    You sound like the Republicans talking about Hunter and Joe Biden taking money from China. Smearing dirt on opponents.
    Hunter hasn’t taken money from China lol?

    He didn’t take money from the rich Russian mayor? Hunter wasn’t taking money from Burisma? For what? Anyone ever figure that out?

    They lose interest and stop looking?
    Coup has started. First of many steps. Impeachment will follow ultimately~WB attorney Mark Zaid, January 2017

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Flash,



    Nice try, but this isn't about me. I am not an average voter. I am well informed. The average voter can't even name the three branches of government.
    If you just want informed people voting then advocate *against* mailing ballots out to every Tom Dick and Harry lol.

    Isn’t that begging for fraud, btw?
    Coup has started. First of many steps. Impeachment will follow ultimately~WB attorney Mark Zaid, January 2017

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