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Thread: The Entire Star Trek Enterprise Crew Has Been Dead Since First Teleportation

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    Default The Entire Star Trek Enterprise Crew Has Been Dead Since First Teleportation

    Food for thought for you.

    There are two episodes on this. What happens when the teleportor malfunctions and you remand behind and there's a copy of you on a planet. So who is this copy? It certainly isn't you.


    So the standard teleportation scene in sci-fi goes something like this: You step into the teleportation chamber here on Earth, the technician presses a few buttons, a beam sweeps over you, and moments later you materialize in a teleportation chamber on Venus (a lovely vacation destination; bring your sunscreen).

    Of course, sci-fi is not science, so it can gloss over the finer points of how this might work. Philosophers (bless them) parading as scientists have given us a couple of options regarding these finer points. (Scientists have stayed away from the issue because of it being “impossible” or some-such. Such negative nancys.)

    Option 1: Each particle of you is converted to energy and actually beamed through space to be reconstituted into matter on Venus.

    Option 2: Each particle of you is scanned, and the teleportation chamber on Venus pulls particles from a pile of carbon and constitutes them one by one to match the original you on Earth.


    https://www.welovephilosophy.com/201...tation-debate/

    One of the coolest technologies depicted on Star Trek is the transporter, which can be used to send a person tens of thousands of miles in just a few seconds. But as any good Star Trek fan knows, transporters are far from perfect. Over the years, we have seen that transporter malfunctions come in many shapes and sizes — literally. In one episode, a transporter error transforms several crewmembers into children. More broadly, transporter malfunctions have split crewmen into multiple people, combined multiple people into one person, separated crewmen’s minds from their bodies, transported people to wonky mirror dimensions, and, in the most mundane scenario of all, sent crewmen to the wrong destination. These regular malfunctions raise a bevy of legal questions about transporters, liability, and personhood.

    https://www.escapistmagazine.com/v2/...aw-philosophy/

    This goes back to the philosophy of Ship of Theseus.

    So who are we? And do we really survive over time? I remember the claim that every atom in your body is replaced every 7 years.

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    The mind-body problem, eh?

    If you can tell me what consciousness is, and how or if consciousness is separate from the brain, I am going to nominate you for a Nobel Prize.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    The mind-body problem, eh?

    If you can tell me what consciousness is, and how or if consciousness is separate from the brain, I am going to nominate you for a Nobel Prize.
    The Ship of Theseus suggests that's the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    The Ship of Theseus suggests that's the problem.
    I never heard of that ship.

    On Next Generation, the transporter made two copies of Riker.

    Riker is so obnoxious, is was a tragedy for the galaxy to have two of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I never heard of that ship.

    On Next Generation, the transporter made two copies of Riker.

    Riker is so obnoxious, is was a tragedy for the galaxy to have two of them.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

    Basically if a ship has every part replaced, is it still the same ship?

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    The question is, is who we are just the accumulation of experiences which have been imprinted on our minds/neurons, period, full stop? I believe that is what John Locke asserted.

    Or are experiences something our independent consciousness owns, like clothes are to a human?


    That is the 64 thousand dollar question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

    Basically if a ship has every part replaced, is it still the same ship?
    No, even at the atomic level there would be differences. I believe the Buddhists had the right answer: life is impermanence...change is constant and nothing stays the same.

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    There's no reason to force objectivity into pure subjctivity so suddenly.

    Besides that, what constitutes something living? First you have to prove what this is and you cant. Our minds are simply separate from the real world. You cant prove they exist since they do not. You cannot prove life without being able to reach into that other place and understand it.

    This is the real world where we can be wrong. In your own mindscape you cant be wrong unless you will it.

    Besides that, the haveto teleport vigorously in federation academy. They'd be long dead before the first episode before the first edge of your context.

    Not a real treky either hmm?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

    Basically if a ship has every part replaced, is it still the same ship?
    "Men are not potatoes!"

    If people are no more than living machines, yes. Same "ship".

    If people have souls or some link to another dimension/supernatural existence, will the soul be released upon the first dematerialization? What happens to the person on the other end?

    This is given that the tech is even feasible. Roddenberry came up with the transporter to avoid having to constantly show shuttle departures, landings, returns,etc.

    There's a lot of Star Trek Tech in existence: automatic doors, sensor beds, communicators/tricorders (thanks Apple!), etc but transporters may never be developed due to the energy and tech requirements.
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post

    This is given that the tech is even feasible. Roddenberry came up with the transporter to avoid having to constantly show shuttle departures, landings, returns,etc.
    True dat. He also came up with the Heisenberg compensator to fix any problem that may come in the future of the shows and movies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    So who are we? And do we really survive over time? I remember the claim that every atom in your body is replaced every 7 years.
    Every cell, not atom.

    Great post, going to read the responses before further comment, if any.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals." -- Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Every cell, not atom.

    Great post, going to read the responses before further comment, if any.
    Wouldn't eating be an introduction of new atoms into the body?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    Wouldn't eating be an introduction of new atoms into the body?
    Yes, but the body remains constant from one moment to the next in an unbroken line. It's not completely destroyed and rebuilt from scratch as with a teleporter.
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Yes, but the body remains constant from one moment to the next in an unbroken line. It's not completely destroyed and rebuilt from scratch as with a teleporter.
    That is the problem of the ship of Theseus. Over years, naturally it needs repairs from time to time. Eventually most, if not all, are replaced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    That is the problem of the ship of Theseus. Over years, naturally it needs repairs from time to time. Eventually most, if not all, are replaced.
    Yet it remains the same ship in one unbroken line of existence.

    The problem is more philosophical once the notion of a "soul" is introduced. IF a soul exists, then wouldn't it be released upon death/dematerialization? What is the thing on the other end?
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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