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Thread: defining the atheist life....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Apisa View Post
    I'd sooner choose Loki to worship.
    then you should be happy in Loki heaven......
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    What is your post about?
    Who but someone obsessed with religion would be forever going on about 'God'? Why define yourself in archaic terms?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    so you think guano is apt to kill someone in the name of atheism?.......I can see that......
    Why would he do that? He's not an atheist.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals." -- Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Apisa View Post
    So...the word "amaze" in your considered opinion means "without a maze?"

    It doesn't actually have to do with definition...it has to do with etymology.

    According to many atheists, the word "atheist" is a result of the etymological "a" Greek for without...prefixing "theist" meaning person who believes in a god...and results in "without a belief in a god."

    THEY ARE WRONG.

    First of all, the word "atheist" came into the English language BEFORE "theist"...so atheist could not have derived that way.

    The word "atheist" did derive from the Greek, but through the French. "A" without + "theos" a god...means BEING WITHOUT A GOD.

    And for most of it life, atheist meant exactly that...being without a god.

    But debating atheists realized there was value in pretending to be without beliefs...so they pretended the word meant what you are pretending it means.

    I have never known a person who uses the word "atheist" as a descriptor who does not "believe" there are no gods or who does not "believe" it is more likely there are no gods than that there is at least one.

    Agnostics are the true non-believers on the issue.

    Descriptors suck.

    Here is my position:

    I do not know if any gods exist or not;
    I see no reason to suspect gods CANNOT EXIST...that the existence of gods is impossible;
    I see no reason to suspect that gods MUST EXIST...that gods are needed to explain existence;
    I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction...

    ...so I don't.


    No need for a descriptor, but if one were applied, I doubt "atheist" would be considered more appropriate than "agnostic."



    People who use atheist...do have an active belief.
    Thanks for the clarification on linguistic history.

    In the same way certain bible thumpers relish the thought of parading their "salvation" to the children of the damned (aka, the rest of us), I believe there is a small subset of anti Christian zealots who fully realize the word "atheist" has maximum annoying effect on bible thumpers.

    Some of it depends on what is meant by the word "God" or Gods. An anthropomorphized literal interpretation of a Judeo-Christian God straight out of the Book of Job is obviously an easy target of ridicule. Even Catholic, Orthodox, and mainline Protestants believe God is utterly incomprehensible and cannot be literally imagined in the human mind. More broadly, in world religious tradition, Gods, deities, spirits are just different faces humans put on a spiritual truth or higher reality underlying the universe.

    I agree that agnosticism is the posture which most likely is reached through the exercise of reason. Unequivocal, definitive certainty that there either is, or is not a spiritual dimension, a higher reality to the universe is not the sort of posture which can be arrived at by reason. Reason and human cognition are going to fail us sometimes. We are not omniscient beings - we basically only have the brains of a souped-up chimpanzee.

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Cypress For This Post:

    Frank Apisa (04-21-2021), ThatOwlWoman (04-21-2021)

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    the whole point of the original comment was that atheists have no guidance in shaping their moral standards.......for you to argue that their moral standards give them that guidance merely shows you have no clue what the discussion is about........now go back outside and play until supper......
    Almost all people are raised with some sort of moral guidance. Whether that comes from a religion or from the culture into which they're born varies by society, and individual family. Religious ppl often make the same mistake you do of believing that those who don't adhere to a faith (usually the one that the religious person has) are without a moral compass. Almost every single one of us can point to an instance in their personal life where a so-called Christian (or other religious person) screwed them over, cheated on their spouse, lied, robbed, cheated, etc. It would be a mistake to then extrapolate from that and claim that all Christians (or whatever) are immoral. But that's what YOU are trying to do here -- claim that atheists are amoral simply by virtue of the fact that they aren't believers in a deity like you claim to be.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals." -- Mark Twain

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    PMP can't be a decent person without a guidebook to tell him how to act. Even then, he is still obviously a horror of a person. If that's what his religion has crafted, I'll say no thanks and call it a day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post
    PMP can't be a decent person without a guidebook to tell him how to act. Even then, he is still obviously a horror of a person. If that's what his religion has crafted, I'll say no thanks and call it a day.
    Unfortunately you are right. Most of those here who loudly proclaim themselves Christians are poor representatives of that faith. If you were a moral being newly arrived here from another world and were looking over the banquet of religions on Earth, you would skip right by that one in favor of something else. On the other hand if you prefer your chosen faith to be a club that you can wield against others to show your alleged superiority, the Christianity of PMP, Stretch, Toxic, RB, etc. is for you. Same with the Buddhism of Dukka.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals." -- Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Thanks for the clarification on linguistic history.

    In the same way certain bible thumpers relish the thought of parading their "salvation" to the children of the damned (aka, the rest of us), I believe there is a small subset of anti Christian zealots who fully realize the word "atheist" has maximum annoying effect on bible thumpers.

    Some of it depends on what is meant by the word "God" or Gods. An anthropomorphized literal interpretation of a Judeo-Christian God straight out of the Book of Job is obviously an easy target of ridicule. Even Catholic, Orthodox, and mainline Protestants believe God is utterly incomprehensible and cannot be literally imagined in the human mind. More broadly, in world religious tradition, Gods, deities, spirits are just different faces humans put on a spiritual truth or higher reality underlying the universe.

    I agree that agnosticism is the posture which most likely is reached through the exercise of reason. Unequivocal, definitive certainty that there either is, or is not a spiritual dimension, a higher reality to the universe is not the sort of posture which can be arrived at by reason. Reason and human cognition are going to fail us sometimes. We are not omniscient beings - we basically only have the brains of a souped-up chimpanzee.
    That explains our society of sociopaths. American exceptionalism has us putting kids in cages to deter asylum seekers when they could be in the fields making sure we don't run out of kale smoothies. One needs to escape Plato's cave to find a spiritual dimension.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Apisa View Post
    First, a note of agreement. The god of the Bible should more reasonably be called a schmuck than a Supreme Being. The god apparently invented by the ancient Hebrews is pathetic. I'd sooner choose Loki to worship.

    That said, however, the use of the word "atheist" by someone who claims not to "believe" a god exists and/or not to "believe" it is more likely that no gods exist than that at least one does...makes no sense.

    You do not have a "lack of 'belief'"...but rather have beliefs different from the beliefs of theists.
    I am pretty certain I know my own mind better than you do. So I can state without equivocation that you are 100% incorrect about my belief. If you want to object to the term on a linguistic technicality, be my guest. Just don't pretend to know what I'm thinking, or tell me it makes no sense.

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    So, that being said, here is MY stance:

    There is no scientific evidence that God exists. There has never been a proven supernatural explanation for any observable phenomenon, therefore God does not need to exist to explain anything in our natural world. Therefore I do not believe that God exists. I really don't care what label you want to apply to that position. The commonly accepted term is atheist. Any other guess as to what my position is would be a completely inaccurate guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Apisa View Post
    So...the word "amaze" in your considered opinion means "without a maze?"


    According to many atheists, the word "atheist" is a result of the etymological "a" Greek for without...prefixing "theist" meaning person who believes in a god...and results in "without a belief in a god."
    THEY ARE WRONG.

    First of all, the word "atheist" came into the English language BEFORE "theist"...so atheist could not have derived that way.
    Proof of that? BTW, how could have the word "atheist" come before "theist", or for that matter "gods"? In order for "atheism" to be coined, "theism" (or "gods") has also have to be coined first.

    Agnostics are the true non-believers on the issue.
    That would be agnostic atheists.

    People who use atheist...do have an active belief.
    Again, how do they have an "active belief"? Do you have an active belief that Santa Claus doesn't exist?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    the whole point of the original comment was that atheists have no guidance in shaping their moral standards.......for you to argue that their moral standards give them that guidance merely shows you have no clue what the discussion is about........now go back outside and play until supper......
    It is cute you think moral guidance has to come from religion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post
    So, that being said, here is MY stance:

    There is no scientific evidence that God exists. There has never been a proven supernatural explanation for any observable phenomenon, therefore God does not need to exist to explain anything in our natural world. Therefore I do not believe that God exists. I really don't care what label you want to apply to that position. The commonly accepted term is atheist. Any other guess as to what my position is would be a completely inaccurate guess.

    Christianity invented the idea there had to be one and only one God. They added this God created the physical universe. Neither are true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post
    PMP can't be a decent person without a guidebook to tell him how to act. Even then, he is still obviously a horror of a person. If that's what his religion has crafted, I'll say no thanks and call it a day.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Unfortunately you are right. Most of those here who loudly proclaim themselves Christians are poor representatives of that faith. If you were a moral being newly arrived here from another world and were looking over the banquet of religions on Earth, you would skip right by that one in favor of something else. On the other hand if you prefer your chosen faith to be a club that you can wield against others to show your alleged superiority, the Christianity of PMP, Stretch, Toxic, RB, etc. is for you. Same with the Buddhism of Dukka.
    more atheists telling people how we are inferior to them.......its all they have and they use it repeatedly........and Owl, who says it never happens, does it as well....
    Last edited by PostmodernProphet; 04-21-2021 at 10:30 AM.
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Why would he do that? He's not an atheist.
    really?....does he know that?......
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

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