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Thread: Defining the Christian Life

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    A good post.
    As far as I can tell, all religions, and many philosophical traditions share two main tenets:

    1) Human existence has meaning.
    2) There exists an eternal, transcendent truth.

    I believe even the agnostics and atheists associated with Transcendentalism, Existentialism, Confucianism share these tenets.

    The only intellectual traditions which probably lie outside this line of human tradition are nihilism, logical positivism, strict empiricism, largely because they consider questions about a transcendent truth to be irrelevant, perhaps even foolish.
    No philosophical tradition believes in transcendent truth.

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    The tennis people and golf people at my club barely interact, socially.

    In some cases, though, a wife will be in the first group and a husband in the second.
    The inverse is far less frequent.
    I'm not sure why.
    Patriotism is the last refuge of a a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson, 1775
    Religion....is the opiate of the people. Karl Marx, 1848
    Person...woman...man...camera...television. Donald Trump, 2020

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    A good post.
    As far as I can tell, all religions, and many philosophical traditions share two main tenets:

    1) Human existence has meaning.
    2) There exists an eternal, transcendent truth.

    I believe even the agnostics and atheists associated with Transcendentalism, Existentialism, Confucianism share these tenets.

    The only intellectual traditions which probably lie outside this line of human tradition are nihilism, logical positivism, strict empiricism, largely because they consider questions about a transcendent truth to be irrelevant, perhaps even foolish.
    Agreed on the two basic tenets. IIRC, there are very few who actually believe "when you're dead, you're dead", something on the order of <4%
    Stripping Americans of their rights, regardless if inalienable or unenumerated, is against American ideals

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    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    No philosophical tradition believes in transcendent truth.
    The underlying tenet of Plato is a transcendental truth.

    Platonism, neoplatonism, Transcendentalism, Stoicism, Confucianism, Daoism to name a few. Immanuel Kant and Soren Kierkegaard certainly considered a higher truth or a divine reality within reach of the human experience.

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    Transcendent (adjective) - Beyond or above the range of normal or merely physical human experience.

    Example: ‘the search for a transcendent level of knowledge’
    https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/transcendent
    ^ Many philosophical and intellectual traditions and philosophers subscribe to this.

    On the flipside, the logical positivists and the empiricists are the intellectual traditions which assert all human knowlege and experience is limited to sensory perception.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    The underlying tenet of Plato is a transcendental truth.

    Platonism, neoplatonism, Transcendentalism, Stoicism, Confucianism, Daoism to name a few. Immanuel Kant and Soren Kierkegaard certainly considered a higher truth or a divine reality within reach of the human experience.
    You're just wrong. And Kant argued against what you claimed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    You're just wrong. And Kant argued against what you claimed.
    Transcendence or transcendent truths, in the way defined in post #140, is most definitely a part of Eastern philosophy, and quite a few western philosophical traditions from Platonism, to Stoicism, to Transcendentalism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Too much of the Brown Acid?
    Same immaculate drug conception tautology in that onward Christian Nation Klues Klucks duh Klans Fourth Reich crusade which May proceed jihad style under color of those crooks on Capital Hill national religion law "man is God" propaganda ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Transcendence or transcendent truths, in the way defined in post #140, is most definitely a part of Eastern philosophy, and quite a few western philosophical traditions from Platonism, to Stoicism, to Transcendentalism.
    Plato, probably. Kant, definitely not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    Plato, probably. Kant, definitely not.
    Kant definitely thought there was knowledge and truth which were beyond human reason and cognition, but I won't nitpick as to whether or not that would be considered a transcendent reality

    Here is another philosophical tradition which definitely starts with the premise of an eternal transcendent truth:

    Chinese Philosophy

    Dao

    Dao is a philosophical concept that is multifaceted and has several interpretations. The most profound interpretation is that of the Cosmic Dao, the Way of the cosmos, which is evident in nature (tian).


    Encyclopedia Britannica
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/dao

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Kant definitely thought there was knowledge and truth which were beyond human reason and cognition, but I won't nitpick as to whether or not that would be considered a transcendent reality
    Absolutely not. His entire corpus is an argument against the idea of knowledge being beyond reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    Absolutely not. His entire corpus is an argument against the idea of knowledge being beyond reason.
    That is about 180 degrees opposite from what I have read and heard about Kant, but we will have to disagree on that.

    More broadly, my original point is no longer in dispute: there are Eastern and Western philosophical traditions which start with a premise that there is a transcendent truth, as defined in post 140.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    That is about 180 degrees opposite from what I have read and heard about Kant.
    You never read Kant. Just state your own beliefs and leave out the philosophers you never read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    More broadly, my original point is no longer in dispute: there are Eastern and Western philosophical traditions which start with a premise that there is a transcendent truth, as defined in post 140.
    I never addressed the Eastern stuff, so nothing to discuss there.
    Second, are you familiar with the bed of Procrustes? Everything everybody said fits into his position. How convenient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Non sequitur. Now, if you said "literal Biblical interpretation", I agree 100%. There is whatever force is behind the Universe (call it a force, God, X, whatever) and there's mankind's interpretations of the Universe.

    Example; Do facts change? Never. Facts are facts. OTOH, mankind's perception of the Universe, such a Ptolemy vs. Copernicus, does change....and quite often.
    The Old Testament God, you must admit, had unbelievably less to know about that what the modern Universe(s?) present. Why should there be a 'force' behind the universe?

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