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Thread: Sinn Fein finally apologises after more than forty years

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    Default Sinn Fein finally apologises after more than forty years

    .
    'We're sorry' Sinn Fein apologises for IRA murder of Prince Philip's uncle 40 years on

    Sinn Fein leader Mary Lou McDonald has said sorry for the IRA's murder of Prince Philip's uncle Lord Mountbatten in 1979 in landmark apology.

    Pity they had to wait until Prince Phillip was dead and buried.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal...bull-latest-vn

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primavera View Post
    .
    'We're sorry' Sinn Fein apologises for IRA murder of Prince Philip's uncle 40 years on

    Sinn Fein leader Mary Lou McDonald has said sorry for the IRA's murder of Prince Philip's uncle Lord Mountbatten in 1979 in landmark apology.

    Pity they had to wait until Prince Phillip was dead and buried.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal...bull-latest-vn
    More than 600 years they're waiting for an English apology

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taft2016 View Post
    More than 600 years they're waiting for an English apology
    They have already, so when will Fianna Fail and Fianna Gael apologise for that disgusting bastard De Valera?


    • Eamon de Valera, Ireland's devout Catholic leader, kept Ireland neutral in perhaps the most unambiguously just war in history, World War Two.

    • If Irish Catholicism could not stand unambiguously against Nazism, then WHAT IN THE NAME OF GOD DID IT STAND FOR?

    • Nazi Germany bombed Dublin and Wexford in 1941, but this was not enough to make De Valera give up his neutrality.

    • [Girvin, 2006] suggests Hitler bombed Ireland deliberately as a warning.

    • Fear of aerial bombing was legitimate, and the strongest argument for neutrality early in the war. But it does not hold after mid-war, when Germany could no longer project such aerial power. Ireland could have switched openly to the Allies after 1942 with little risk.

    • De Valera condemned the siting of US bases in Northern Ireland to help in the liberation of Europe.
    Alfred O'Rahilly supported neutrality.

    • A young Charles Haughey burnt a Union Jack on VE-Day in 1945 to show his disgust at the liberation of Europe.

    • The IRA supported the Nazis in World War 2
    Nazis and Nazi supporters in Ireland in WW2

    • [Girvin, 2006] lists some interesting things:

    • Famous republican Dan Breen was a Nazi spy and collaborator, hoped for Nazi victory in the war, and actually wept when Hitler died.

    • Sean MacBride (founding member of Amnesty International) was a Nazi collaborator.

    • James J. Walsh was sympathetic to the Nazis.

    • Todd Andrews was friendly with the Nazis, and socialised at the Nazi embassy during the war.

    • De Valera's visit to the German Embassy to offer condolences for Hitler in 1945 was supported by Frank Aiken and Sean T. O'Kelly.

    • De Valera was horrified by the Nuremberg Trials, and protested about them.

    • De Valera's state blocked Jews from finding refuge in Ireland before the Holocaust:

    • Ireland and the Holocaust (and here)

    • Robert Briscoe was Ireland's only Jewish TD. Despite being a member of the ruling Fianna Fail party and a personal friend of the Taoiseach De Valera, even Briscoe was unable, though he made repeated efforts, to secure an entry visa for his aunt Hedwig, who lived in Berlin. His aunt was eventually deported to Auschwitz and murdered. In the end, more than 150 members of Briscoe's extended family were murdered in the Holocaust.

    Source: Historian Dr. Kevin McCarthy.
    That really sums it up.

    • De Valera let Nazi and Croat war criminals find refuge in Ireland after the war:

    • De Valera helped Nazi war criminal, Nicola Tallant, The Sunday Times, January 07, 2007

    • How Dev's Ireland became safe haven for fugitive Nazis, Nicola Tallant, Sunday Independent, January 07, 2007

    RTE "Hidden History"
    "Ireland's Nazis", part 1
    "Ireland's Nazis", part 2

    The "chickenhawk" argument

    The "chickenhawk" argument was actually used against those few lonely voices in Ireland that supported the Allies against the Nazis in WW2.
    Opposition TD James Dillon of Fine Gael was almost the only major voice in Ireland saying we should join the Allies against Nazi Germany.

    Dail, 13 November, 1946: James Dillon urges the government not to let Adolf Mahr, head of the Irish Nazi Party, and wartime Nazi propagandist, return to his pre-war post as director of the National Museum of Ireland: "I remember at one time there was a "wangle" to restore to public employment in this country a gentleman who was at one time leader of the Hitler Youth in this country and a colleague of the head of the Gestapo in this city. ... Will the Minister give us a guarantee that Dr. Mahr who is at present holding office, on leave of absence without pay, as Director of our Museum, is not coming back under this scheme? Is he or any of his ilk going to come here under this scheme?"

    Frank Aiken of Fianna Fáil defends the Nazi, and sneers at Dillon for his support for the Allies: "I take it that if the gentleman who was in charge of the National Museum were to come back to Ireland to work, it would be in the Museum, and not in the academy, that he would work. I have no brief for him. I do not know whether he will ever come back to this country or not. Deputy Dillon wants to take advantage of this Dáil to abuse everybody, right left and centre, to kick people who are down, but I say this for that gentleman, that he went towards the fighting, unlike Deputy Dillon."

    In this little sneer, and the moral emptiness at the heart of it, I think Frank Aiken sums up the world of de Valera's Fianna Fail during WW2.

    Fine Gael were the most pro-allied party, but their party line was to go along with FF in staying neutral. James Dillon was almost the only one to break ranks and say we should join the Allied effort.

    For all their "anti-fascist" spoof, I'm not aware of any left-wing Irish politician who said we should join the fight against Hitler. If you know of any, tell me here.

    Churchill's speech of May 13, 1945

    I agree with Churchill on Ireland's treachery. Ireland was a democracy, one of the only democracies in a world full of genocidal communist and fascist totalitarianism. And it should have stood with the other democracies in World War Two.

    As Churchill (who lived in Ireland as a child) said:
    "The sense of envelopment, which might at any moment turn to strangulation, lay heavy upon us. We had only the northwestern approach between Ulster and Scotland through which to bring in the means of life and to send out the forces of war. Owing to the action of Mr. de Valera, so much at variance with the temper and instinct of thousands of southern Irishmen, who hastened to the battlefront to prove their ancient valor, the approaches which the southern Irish ports and airfields could so easily have guarded were closed by the hostile aircraft and U-boats.
    This was indeed a deadly moment in our life, and if it had not been for the loyalty and friendship of Northern Ireland we should have been forced to come to close quarters with Mr. de Valera or perish forever from the earth. However, with a restraint and poise to which, I say, history will find few parallels, we never laid a violent hand upon them, which at times would have been quite easy and quite natural, and left the de Valera Government to frolic with the German and later with the Japanese representatives to their heart's content.

    When I think of these days I think also of other episodes and personalities. I do not forget Lieutenant-Commander Esmonde, V.C., D.S.O., Lance-Corporal Keneally, V.C., Captain Fegen, V.C., and other Irish heroes that I could easily recite, and all bitterness by Britain for the Irish race dies in my heart. I can only pray that in years which I shall not see, the shame will be forgotten and the glories will endure, and that the peoples of the British Isles and of the British Commonwealth of Nations will walk together in mutual comprehension and forgiveness."

    Britain would certainly have been entitled to invade my country, Ireland, if the alternative was losing the war. It was Ireland's most shameful moment in all of its history.

    Ireland was neutral in World War 2. While Britain fought hard to save Western Europe, Ireland stood by. It is perhaps the most shameful episode in our history as a nation.
    https://markhumphrys.com/ireland.ww2....saved.ireland
    Last edited by cancel2 2022; 04-18-2021 at 06:59 AM.

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    Where was that apology?

    Rest of childish oversimplications of complex issues ignored.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taft2016 View Post
    Where was that apology?

    Rest of childish oversimplications of complex issues ignored.
    Of course, I know you from old. What you mean is it's incredibly embarrassing for Irish politicians especially Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein.




    Ireland's no.1 awkward fact: Ireland is only free because of the British military


    Every country has awkward facts that destroy any simple narrative of their history.

    Ireland's no.1 awkward fact is Ireland is only free because of the British military.

    This is not to say that the British military has always been good for Ireland. That would be another false narrative. Rather it is to focus specifically on the 1940s.

    Ireland was a continuous democracy before, during and after WW2. We had elections throughout the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s. Our democracy never stopped. We never lost it.

    How? Because Britain held the line almost alone against the Nazis until 1941, and then went on with America and other democratic allies to save Western European democracy from both Hitler and Stalin.

    Powers much bigger and stronger than us would have snuffed out our democracy in a heartbeat. Hitler and Stalin snuffed out democracy everywhere they went. But being positioned behind Britain meant we were saved.

    Hitler would have ended our democracy:

    Nazi-occupied Europe. The destruction of human freedom across almost the whole continent.

    Operation Green. Hitler's plan for the Nazi invasion of Ireland.

    Stalin would also have ended our democracy:

    The Eastern Front. At the end of the war, as the Red Army advances, it liberates countries from fascism only to enslave them under communism.

    The Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe. The destruction of human freedom in the East for over 40 years.

    Britain saved us from Hitler and Stalin. It is very awkward. It is a real spanner in the works of the Irish nationalist narrative developed over 1916 to 1939.

    Within 20 years of independence, the simple narrative of "Britain bad for Ireland" was destroyed, when Britain saved Ireland. Ireland has done its best to ignore this, but the fact is still there, and will always be there for anyone who cares to think. Irish nationalism has never come to terms with the destruction of its narrative in 1939-45, and maybe never will. History is complex.

    Every country has awkward facts that destroy any simple narrative of their history.
    Ireland's no.1 awkward fact is Ireland is only free because of the British military.
    This is not to say that the British military has always been good for Ireland. That would be another false narrative. Rather it is to focus specifically on the 1940s.
    Ireland was a continuous democracy before, during and after WW2. We had elections throughout the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s. Our democracy never stopped. We never lost it.
    How? Because Britain held the line almost alone against the Nazis until 1941, and then went on with America and other democratic allies to save Western European democracy from both Hitler and Stalin. Powers much bigger and stronger than us would have snuffed out our democracy in a heartbeat. Hitler and Stalin snuffed out democracy everywhere they went. But being positioned behind Britain meant we were saved.
    Hitler would have ended our democracy:
    Nazi-occupied Europe. The destruction of human freedom across almost the whole continent.
    Operation Green. Hitler's plan for the Nazi invasion of Ireland.
    Stalin would also have ended our democracy:
    The Eastern Front. At the end of the war, as the Red Army advances, it liberates countries from fascism only to enslave them under communism.
    The Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe. The destruction of human freedom in the East for over 40 years.
    Britain saved us from Hitler and Stalin. It is very awkward. It is a real spanner in the works of the Irish nationalist narrative developed over 1916 to 1939. Within 20 years of independence, the simple narrative of "Britain bad for Ireland" was destroyed, when Britain saved Ireland. Ireland has done its best to ignore this, but the fact is still there, and will always be there for anyone who cares to think. Irish nationalism has never come to terms with the destruction of its narrative in 1939-45, and maybe never will. History is complex.

    irish.ww2.jpg

    https://markhumphrys.com/ireland.ww2....saved.ireland
    Last edited by cancel2 2022; 04-18-2021 at 07:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taft2016 View Post
    Where was that apology?

    Rest of childish oversimplications of complex issues ignored.
    The Queen shook hands with Martin McGuinness, even though he ordered the killing of Louis Mountbatten.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primavera View Post
    The Queen shook hands with Martin McGuinness, even though he ordered the killing of Louis Mountbatten.
    That's an apology?

    At best it is a condescension.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taft2016 View Post
    That's an apology?

    At best it is a condescension.
    I don't care what you think, that's the truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primavera View Post
    I don't care what you think, that's the truth.
    I don't care what you think, mostly because you're ignorant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taft2016 View Post
    I don't care what you think, mostly because you're ignorant.
    Take it up with Dr. Mark Humphreys.

    https://twitter.com/markhumphrys

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    Hitler would have made short work of the IRA, they'd have been strung up with piano wire. He desperately wanted the western ports to operate U-boats from. Churchill showed remarkable restraint by not just taking them forcibly, he even offered the Six Counties to De Valera but he wouldn't budge. To sign the condolence book when Hitler died was truly beyond the Pale.
    Last edited by cancel2 2022; 04-19-2021 at 01:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primavera View Post
    Hitler would have made short work of the IRA, they'd have been strung up with piano wire. He desperately wanted the western ports to operate U-boats from. Churchill showed remarkable restraint by not just taking them forcibly, he even offered the Six Counties to De Valera but he wouldn't budge. To sign the condolence book when Hitler died was truly beyond the Pale.
    De Valera didn't want a modern Ireland he preferred a bucolic Catholic 'paradise' run by parish pump politicians, psychotic priests and nuns who saw the Devil round every corner and were determined to stamp the evil out of little children. That's the harsh reality of the real Ireland not the one portrayed by Hollywood. I know of which I speak, having gone to a primary school run by Irish nuns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primavera View Post
    .
    'We're sorry' Sinn Fein apologises for IRA murder of Prince Philip's uncle 40 years on

    Sinn Fein leader Mary Lou McDonald has said sorry for the IRA's murder of Prince Philip's uncle Lord Mountbatten in 1979 in landmark apology.

    Pity they had to wait until Prince Phillip was dead and buried.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal...bull-latest-vn
    Only the weak apologize.
    Don't be afraid to see what you see

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