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Thread: Scientific American: it's no longer climate change, it's climate emergency

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello T. A. Gardner,

    Agreed with most of that, except I don't think natural gas is a good idea, as it creates CO2, pollution and earthquakes.
    You need it for peaking plants to respond to load changes on the grid. It pollutes less than any of the alternatives and is far less destructive to use than solar or wind, particularly when you consider the amount of mining and nasty elements that go into those. So, the reliance on natural gas would be a small portion of the whole. Roughly 80% of the grid could come from nuclear and would run maybe $0.10 a kwh. That also gives us the cheap electricity to make hydrogen or ammonia.

    You are still going to need oil and gas production anyway to make a whole raft of other products besides energy.



    You can't end oil and gas production and maintain a modern high tech society.

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    Hello T. A. Gardner,

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    You need it for peaking plants to respond to load changes on the grid. It pollutes less than any of the alternatives and is far less destructive to use than solar or wind, particularly when you consider the amount of mining and nasty elements that go into those. So, the reliance on natural gas would be a small portion of the whole. Roughly 80% of the grid could come from nuclear and would run maybe $0.10 a kwh. That also gives us the cheap electricity to make hydrogen or ammonia.

    You are still going to need oil and gas production anyway to make a whole raft of other products besides energy.



    You can't end oil and gas production and maintain a modern high tech society.
    We need to transform our society. Agreed we have to keep using gas until we can find those practical alternatives. I am totally onboard with new tech nuclear which has been shown safe. That seems like the most direct way to lots of clean power. I favor the Traveling Wave Reactor.

    I also favor low tech solutions like planting trees. Billions of them.

    I'm sure most liberals would suddenly cry foul if their local grid began having rolling black-outs because too many dirty power plants were shut down without anything to replace them. That's why it is a climate emergency. We have got to take bold steps and they need to be taken ASAP.

    I keep hearing stories about the price of solar coming down down down. That's good, but how to save that energy? What is the cost of Tesla batteries for the world? And can cities really be powered from batteries? I can't see that happening. We're going to need a combination of power sources.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    You need it for peaking plants to respond to load changes on the grid. It pollutes less than any of the alternatives and is far less destructive to use than solar or wind, particularly when you consider the amount of mining and nasty elements that go into those. So, the reliance on natural gas would be a small portion of the whole. Roughly 80% of the grid could come from nuclear and would run maybe $0.10 a kwh. That also gives us the cheap electricity to make hydrogen or ammonia.

    You are still going to need oil and gas production anyway to make a whole raft of other products besides energy.



    You can't end oil and gas production and maintain a modern high tech society.
    That is not a problem for either large sections of the Muslims nor the Regressive Left.......both want to see civilization in retrograde....and are getting it.
    I choose my own words like the Americans of olden times........before this dystopia arrived.

    DARK AGES SUCK!

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    You need it for peaking plants to respond to load changes on the grid. It pollutes less than any of the alternatives and is far less destructive to use than solar or wind, particularly when you consider the amount of mining and nasty elements that go into those. So, the reliance on natural gas would be a small portion of the whole. Roughly 80% of the grid could come from nuclear and would run maybe $0.10 a kwh. That also gives us the cheap electricity to make hydrogen or ammonia.

    You are still going to need oil and gas production anyway to make a whole raft of other products besides energy.

    You can't end oil and gas production and maintain a modern high tech society.
    You just can't get through to idiots like PoliTalker, I frankly don't know why you even bother.

    Here is an excellent piece on Judith Curry's website regarding how scientists allow confirmation bias and groupthink to overwhelm their scientific instincts.


    “Like a magnetic field that pulls iron filings into alignment, a powerful cultural belief is aligning multiple sources of scientific bias in the same direction. – policy scientist Daniel Sarewitz

    Statistician Regina Nuzzo summarizes the problem:

    “This is the big problem in science that no one is talking about: even an honest person is a master of self-deception. In today’s environment, our talent for jumping to conclusions makes it all too easy to find false patterns in randomness, to ignore alternative explanations for a result or to accept ‘reasonable’ outcomes without question — that is, to ceaselessly lead ourselves astray without realizing it.”

    Psychologists Richard Simmons et al. find that researcher bias can have a profound influence on the outcome of a study. Such ‘researcher degrees of freedom’ include choices about which variables to include, which data to include, which comparisons to make, and which analysis methods to use. Each of these choices may be reasonable, but when added together they allow for researchers to extract statistical significance or other meaningful information out of almost any data set. Researchers making necessary choices about data collection and analysis believe that they are making the correct, or at least reasonable, 
choices. But their bias will influence those choices in ways that researchers may not be aware of. Further, researchers may simply be using the techniques that work – meaning they give the results the researcher wants.

    The objective of scientific research is to find out what is really true, not just verify our biases. If a community of scientists has a diversity of perspectives and different biases, then the checks and balances in the scientific process including peer review will eventually counter the biases of individuals. Sometimes this is true—but often this does not happen quickly or smoothly. Not only can poor data and wrong ideas survive, but good ideas can be suppressed.

    However, when biases caused by motivated reasoning and career pressures become entrenched in the institutions that support science – the professional societies, scientific journals, universities and funding agencies – then that subfield of science may be led astray for decades.

    Biases caused by a consensus building process

    Consensus is viewed as a proxy for truth in many discussions of science. A consensus formed by the independent and free deliberations of many is a strong indicator of truth. However, a consensus can only be trusted to the extent that individuals are free to disagree with it.

    A scientific argument can evolve prematurely into a ruling theory if cultural forces are sufficiently strong and aligned in the same direction. Premature theories enforced by an explicit consensus building process harm scientific progress because of the questions that don’t get asked and the investigations that aren’t undertaken. Nuzzio (2015) refers to this as ‘hypothesis myopia.’

    If the objective of scientific research is to obtain truth and avoid error, how might a consensus seeking process introduce bias into the science and increase the chances for error?

    ‘Confirmation bias’ is a well-known psychological principle that connotes the seeking or interpretation of evidence in ways that are partial to existing beliefs, expectations, or an existing hypothesis. Confirmation bias usually refers to unwitting selectivity in the acquisition and interpretation of evidence.

    Philosopher Thomas Kelly (2005) provides the following insight into confirmation bias. As more and more peers weigh in on a given issue, the proportion of the total evidence which consists of higher order psychological evidence of what other people believe increases, and the proportion of the total evidence which consists of first order evidence decreases. Kelly concludes that over time, this invisible hand process tends to bestow a certain competitive advantage to our prior beliefs with respect to confirmation and disconfirmation.

    Allen et al. (2020) demonstrate how dependence, pressure, and polarization can force a consensus, making reliance on consensus as an indicator of truth unreliable. As a result, a consensus can only be trusted to the extent that individuals are free to disagree with it, without repression or reprisal. Similarly, when strong incentives favor affirmation of a position, a consensus affirming it becomes almost inevitable, and therefore all but meaningless.

    Communication theorist Jean Goodwin argues that once the consensus claim was made, scientists involved in the ongoing IPCC process had reasons not just to consider the scientific evidence, but also to consider the possible effect of their statements on their ability to defend the consensus claim.

    The IPCC’s consensus-building process arguably promotes groupthink. ‘Groupthink’ is a pattern of thought characterized by self-deception, forced manufacture of consent, and conformity to group values. Janis (1972) describes eight symptoms of groupthink:

    • illusion of invulnerability
    • collective rationalization
    • belief in inherent morality
    • stereotyped views of out-groups
    • direct pressure on dissenters
    • self-censorship
    • illusion of unanimity
    • self-appointed mind guards

    Many defenders of the IPCC consensus − both scientists and consensus entrepreneurs − show many if not all of these symptoms.

    Thomas Gold (1989) discussed the dangers that ‘herd behavior’ poses for scientists, potentially leading to an inertia-driven persistence of false consensus opinion within the sciences. While herd instinct has value in sociological behavior, it has been a disaster in science − in science what we generally want is diversity. When people pursue the same avenue all together, they tend to shut out other avenues, and they are not always on the right ones.

    It is not just the herd instinct in the individuals that is of concern. If support from peers and moral and financial consequences are at stake, then staying with the herd is the successful policy for the individual; however, it is not the successful policy for the pursuit of science. Mental herd behavior, even if it does not actually put a clamp upon free thinking, insidiously applies pressure to follow the fashion. The institutions that support of science − financial support, the journals, the judgment of referees, the invitations to conferences, professional recognition − are all influenced by herd behavior.

    Economist William Butos (2015) characterizes the IPCC as a ‘Big Player’ in science in that it possesses all of the attributes characteristic of Big Players in markets: bigness in terms of influence, insensitivity to the usual constraints, and discretion in its ability to promote a favored direction of research. This characterization of the IPCC as ‘Big Player’ is similar to economist Richard Tol’s characterization of the IPCC as a knowledge monopoly. The IPCC’s influence in climate science is pervasive, allowing it to largely ignore the usual scientific constraints on the acceptance of hypotheses. Professional success in climate science has become more tied to the acceptance of the IPCC’s pronouncements than with the exploration of contrary possibilities.

    The existence of the IPCC as a ‘big player’ and a ‘knowledge monopoly’ on climate change can lead to premature canonization of IPCC conclusions. Premature canonization refers to widespread scientific belief in a false or incomplete conclusion, which leads to suppression masquerading as rejection. Suppression occurs when the fear of social sanctions prevents ideas from being explored or empirical findings from being presented in scientific or public forums. In science, rejection occurs when an idea has been explored and the evidence has been found wanting. A classic, relatively recent case of premature canonization involves the scientific identification of causes of ulcers.

    So what are the implications of these concerns for the IPCC’s consensus on human-caused climate change? Cognitive biases in the context of an institutionalized consensus building process have arguably resulted in the consensus becoming increasingly confirmed, and even canonized, in a self-reinforcing way. An extended group of scientists derive their confidence in the consensus in a second-hand manner from the institutional authority of the IPCC and the emphatic nature in which the consensus is portrayed. This ‘invisible hand’ marginalizes skeptical perspectives. Overconfident assertions by the ‘Big Player’ take away the motivation for scientists to challenge the consensus, particularly when they can expect to be called a ‘denier’ for their efforts and see their chances diminish for professional recognition and research funding.

    The consensus building process acts to amplify personal biases, and marginalizes disagreement from either a majority opinion or the opinion of the loudest or most motivated person in the room. One can only speculate on the magnitude and importance of the biases introduced into climate science by the IPCC’s consensus seeking process.
    Last edited by cancel2 2022; 04-13-2021 at 06:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Who is also a retired nurse. for real.
    Care to discuss what type of titanium implant you’d use in Type 3 bone density to replace a lower first molar with an alveolar crest 11 mm superior to the 3rd branch of the trigeminal nerve?
    Personally what has worked quite well for me is a 4 degree tapered. What’s your opinion?

    Also how would you restore the implant once osseointegrated? Do you prefer the torqued screw retained or the preloaded?
    Last edited by anonymoose; 04-13-2021 at 06:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymoose View Post
    Care to discuss what type of titanium implant you’d use in Type 3 bone density to replace a lower first molar with an alveolar crest 11 mm superior to the 3rd branch of the trigeminal nerve?
    Personally what has worked quite well for me is a 4 degree tapered. What’s your opinion?
    Why on Earth would a nurse know -- or care -- about dentistry, other than as a patient?

    Post fail.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals." -- Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by reagansghost View Post
    The planet is heating up way too fast. It’s time for journalism to recognize that the climate emergency is here.

    This is a statement of science, not politics. Thousands of scientists—including James Hansen, the NASA scientist who put the problem on the public agenda in 1988, and David King and Hans Schellnhuber, former science advisers to the British and German governments, respectively — have said humanity faces a “climate emergency.”

    Why “emergency”? Because words matter. To preserve a livable planet, humanity must take action immediately. Failure to slash the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere will make the extraordinary heat, storms, wildfires and ice melt of 2020 routine and could “render a significant portion of the Earth uninhabitable,” warned the January Scientific American article.

    The media’s response to COVID-19 provides a useful model. Guided by science, journalists have described the pandemic as an emergency, chronicled its devastating impacts, called out disinformation and told audiences how to protect themselves (with masks and social distancing, for example).

    We need the same commitment to the climate story. As partners in Covering Climate Now, a global consortium of hundreds of news outlets, we will present coverage in the lead-up to Earth Day, April 22, 2021, around the theme “Living Through the Climate Emergency.” We invite journalists everywhere to join us.


    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ing-to-say-so/
    I really do not understand how a previously august publication like Scientific American would publish such drivel even if only in the opinion section. The author says the world is heating up dangerously yet UAH version 6.0 of the global average lower tropospheric temperature (LT) anomaly for March, 2021 was -0.01 deg. C, down substantially from the February, 2021 value of +0.20 deg. C.

    I also seem to recall that Scientific American was in the vanguard warning against global cooling back in the 70s. I'm sure they don't like being reminded of that fact, although I suspect the Grand Solar Minimum will be there to remind them.
    Last edited by cancel2 2022; 04-13-2021 at 06:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primavera View Post
    I really do not understand how a previously august publication like Scientific American would publish such drivel even if only in the opinion section. The author says the world is heating up dangerously yet
    The Version 6.0 global average lower tropospheric temperature (LT) anomaly for March, 2021 was -0.01 deg. C, down substantially from the February, 2021 value of +0.20 deg. C.
    I have been trying to warn you.
    I choose my own words like the Americans of olden times........before this dystopia arrived.

    DARK AGES SUCK!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    I have been trying to warn you.
    I am perfectly well aware that the Regressive Left perceive that an Overton window has opened for them to pursue their loony and potentially ruinous policies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primavera View Post
    I am perfectly well aware that the Regressive Left perceive that an Overton window has opened for them to pursue their loony and potentially ruinous policies.
    UM Sir.....they decided many decades ago that they were going to be the ones doing the framing and the ones the decided on proper language and the ones moving windows as needed.

    You dont seem to grasp how much of what is happening is from design, is from plans, is part of the Revolutions well thought out and very patient plan to kill America.

    UTOPIA CALLS
    I choose my own words like the Americans of olden times........before this dystopia arrived.

    DARK AGES SUCK!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Who is also a retired nurse. for real.
    You are probably one of the only posters in JPP history who has college degrees in both a scientific discipline, and in the humanities.

    Congratulations on your induction into the top one percent academic elite of JPP!

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    EMERGENCY

    PLANET 911
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Why on Earth would a nurse know -- or care -- about dentistry, other than as a patient?
    You're right. No way a nurse would know or be able to have input on those type of decisions, much less a Native American Studies student.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Post fail.
    Almost. Thread fail. Global warming became climate change after global warming failed. Looks like climate change has failed so yes, let's call it climate emergency. When that fails to materialize I suggest 'climate apocalypse'.
    Last edited by anonymoose; 04-13-2021 at 10:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reagansghost View Post
    The planet is heating up way too fast.
    The temperature of the Earth is unknown. Argument from randU fallacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by reagansghost View Post
    It’s time for journalism to recognize that the climate emergency is here.
    There is no emergency. Buzzword fallacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by reagansghost View Post
    This is a statement of science, not politics
    Denial of science. Religion is not science.
    Quote Originally Posted by reagansghost View Post
    Thousands of scientists—including James Hansen, the NASA scientist who put the problem on the public agenda in 1988, and David King and Hans Schellnhuber, former science advisers to the British and German governments, respectively — have said humanity faces a “climate emergency.”
    Science does not use consensus. Only religions do that.
    Quote Originally Posted by reagansghost View Post
    Why “emergency”? Because words matter.
    Buzzwords don't matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by reagansghost View Post
    To preserve a livable planet, humanity must take action immediately.
    You not defined a problem yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by reagansghost View Post
    Failure to slash the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere will make the extraordinary heat, storms, wildfires and ice melt of 2020 routine and could “render a significant portion of the Earth uninhabitable,” warned the January Scientific American article.
    Carbon dioxide is incapable of warming the Earth. You can't create energy out of nothing. No gas or vapor is capable of warming the Earth. See the 1st law of thermodynamics.
    Carbon dioxide is incapable of decreasing entropy. See the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
    Quote Originally Posted by reagansghost View Post
    The media’s response to COVID-19 provides a useful model.
    Comparing one religion to another, eh? I've already pointed out the similarity of these two fundamentalist religions.
    Quote Originally Posted by reagansghost View Post
    Guided by science, journalists have described the pandemic as an emergency,
    You are denying science and mathematics.
    Quote Originally Posted by reagansghost View Post
    chronicled its devastating impacts,
    Buzzword fallacy. What 'devastating impacts'?
    Quote Originally Posted by reagansghost View Post
    called out disinformation
    This article IS disinformation.

    You can't create energy out of nothing.
    You can't reduce entropy in any system.
    Masks do not stop any virus.
    6 feet does not stop any virus.
    Random numbers are not data.

    Quote Originally Posted by reagansghost View Post
    and told audiences how to protect themselves (with masks and social distancing, for example).
    Masks do not stop any virus. Neither does 6 feet.
    Quote Originally Posted by reagansghost View Post
    We need the same commitment to the climate story. As partners in Covering Climate Now, a global consortium of hundreds of news outlets, we will present coverage in the lead-up to Earth Day, April 22, 2021, around the theme “Living Through the Climate Emergency.” We invite journalists everywhere to join us.
    ...deleted Holy Link...
    Committing to a fundamentalist religion is the act of an illiterate person. It is senseless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by reagansghost View Post
    The planet is heating up way too fast. It’s time for journalism to recognize that the climate emergency is here.

    This is a statement of science, not politics. Thousands of scientists—including James Hansen, the NASA scientist who put the problem on the public agenda in 1988, and David King and Hans Schellnhuber, former science advisers to the British and German governments, respectively — have said humanity faces a “climate emergency.”

    Why “emergency”? Because words matter. To preserve a livable planet, humanity must take action immediately. Failure to slash the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere will make the extraordinary heat, storms, wildfires and ice melt of 2020 routine and could “render a significant portion of the Earth uninhabitable,” warned the January Scientific American article.

    The media’s response to COVID-19 provides a useful model. Guided by science, journalists have described the pandemic as an emergency, chronicled its devastating impacts, called out disinformation and told audiences how to protect themselves (with masks and social distancing, for example).

    We need the same commitment to the climate story. As partners in Covering Climate Now, a global consortium of hundreds of news outlets, we will present coverage in the lead-up to Earth Day, April 22, 2021, around the theme “Living Through the Climate Emergency.” We invite journalists everywhere to join us.


    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ing-to-say-so/
    The emergency for the alarmists is that none of the doomsday predictions have never materialized.
    I really like this one:
    50m environmental refugees by end of decade, (2010) UN warns
    Wed 12 Oct 2005 09.32 EDT
    https://www.theguardian.com/environm...climatechange1

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