America is losing its religion — and the effects will be long-lasting

[Doc Dutch]

Al the while that stupid cunt (and a few others above) sit in line at the church that is handing out free food waiting for "their share."

[Cypress]

the history of atheist's lies about religion is an even lengthier history......

let's just leave it as this: you wasted your education at your little Bible school, because you were unaware that Luther and Calvin profoundly theologically influenced world Protestantism, irrespective of denomination.

HOW LUTHER'S ACTIONS INFLUENCED BAPTISTS

"Luther laid the groundwork for Baptists to preach that salvation is based on faith alone"

https://medium.com/christian-citizen...s-c698599534e3

"Why Martin Luther matters to United Methodists"

Without Luther, it’s quite possible no Wesleyan movement would have arisen two centuries later.

https://www.umnews.org/en/news/why-m...ted-methodists

"John Calvin, Martin Luther's successor as the preeminent Protestant theologian, made a powerful impact on the fundamental doctrines of Protestantism."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bio...re/john-calvin

Evangelicals Find Themselves in the Midst of a Calvinist Revival

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...icals.amp.html

[Cypress]

My rudimentary understanding of the Protestant tradition is that there is still an incentive to do good works and not be a total jackass.

The standard Protestant is always going to be stressed out wondering if they received God's grace. According to Protestant theology, we can recieve hints [evidence of faith] in this life if we have received grace if we live a moral life. The incentive is to not act evil because in doing so, one would be demonstrating they have not recieved God's grace.

Even so, John Calvin and the Calvinist tradition scares the crap out of me. Predestination seems to imply free will is an illusion.

None of that is the Protestantism I grew up with.

The Wikipedia entry on Protestant theology corroborates basically exactly what I wrote:

"The doctrine of justification asserts that it is on the basis of their faith that believers are forgiven their transgressions of the law of God rather than on the basis of good works which they have done. This forgiveness is known as "justification". In classical Lutheran and Reformed theologies, good works are seen to be evidence of faith, but the good works themselves do not determine salvation."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_fide

[BidenPresident]

The Wikipedia entry on Protestant theology corroborates basically exactly what I wrote:

I don't care what wikipedia says. It is for people who know nothing about a topic.

[Cypress]

I don't care what wikipedia says. It is for people who know nothing about a topic.

What I wrote about the theology of justification in the Protestant tradition was perfectly correct.

[BidenPresident]

What I wrote about the theology of justification in the Protestant tradition was perfectly correct.

Ok.

[PostmodernProphet]

There is nothing else I can teach you.

You were obviously deeply misguided and somehow believed that your little bible thumping American evangelical churches developed their core Protestant theology and traditions organically and completely independently of the core Protestant theological traditions of Luther and Calvin.

That misguided impression is so far off the map it would be laughed out of any legitimate seminaries or divinity schools.

If I were you I would sue that little bible school you attended for malpractice. Because they clearly did not give you an even rudimentary education in history of Protestantism.

you really shouldn't discuss religion if you know nothing about it....

[PostmodernProphet]

So you accept that atheists started religions. So you believe in a religion some atheist made up. You of course will not understand what it means about your "thinking" and your silly beliefs.

???.....no.......but I accept atheists have always been ignorant........

[Iolo/Penderyn]

I have been saying for two decades that America is becoming a Post Christian nation...other folks are beginning to figure this out.

I think non-Christian would be more accurate. How many Americans have ever lived by the New Testament? Perhaps some Christian missionaries will come over one day and demonstrate the difference between Christian and 'religious'.

[PostmodernProphet]

let's just leave it as this: you wasted your education at your little Bible school, because you were unaware that Luther and Calvin profoundly theologically influenced world Protestantism, irrespective of denomination.

no one argues that they didn't have a profound impact on the world....but your claim was....

Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
Protestantism traces roots and theology to Luther and Calvin.

Luther's theology influences Lutherans and Calvin's theology influences Calvinists, such as myself........it is ludicrous to say that the theology of denominations antithetical to both has its roots in their theology........all Protestants shared their opposition to the theology of the RCC and shared finding their roots in scripture.......that is where Luther, Calvin, and all the other Reformers found their roots......

[PostmodernProphet]

Evangelicals Find Themselves in the Midst of a Calvinist Revival

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...icals.amp.html

interesting quote in this link you give in support of your claim that all protestants shared Calvin's theology.....

But in the 19th century, Protestantism moved toward the non-Calvinist belief that humans must consent to their own salvation — an optimistic, quintessentially American belief.

it would appear your source doesn't agree with your position.......

it also states this about the recent shift to beliefs consistent with Calvin's theology......

In the Southern Baptist Convention, the country’s largest Protestant denomination, the rise of Calvinism has provoked discord.

that would seem to indicate, does it not that the Baptists, unlike you, do not believe their theology to be rooted in Calvin's theology.....

[PostmodernProphet]

by the way, there was another quote from your link I liked.....

“What you’d be hearing in some megachurches is, ‘God wants you to be a good parent, and here are seven ways God can help you to be a good parent,’ ” said Collin Hansen, the author of “Young, Restless, Reformed: A Journalist’s Journey With the New Calvinists.” “Or, ‘God wants you to have a good marriage, so here are three ways to do that.’ ” By contrast, Mr. Hansen said, those who attend Calvinist churches want the preacher to “tell them about Jesus.”

thanks for that.....

[Cypress]

interesting quote in this link you give in support of your claim that all protestants shared Calvin's theology.....



it would appear your source doesn't agree with your position.......

it also states this about the recent shift to beliefs consistent with Calvin's theology......


that would seem to indicate, does it not that the Baptists, unlike you, do not believe their theology to be rooted in Calvin's theology.....

American Protestantism is a minority of world Protestantism.


You were unaware that Luther and Calvin profoundly influenced Protestant theology across time and across denominations.

That is extraordinary for someone who paid money to some little bible school to teach them about Christianity.

That means two things: you have no credibility to discuss world religious history, and you wasted your money at your little Bible school because they did not even teach you rudimentary religious history

[PostmodernProphet]

American Protestantism is a minority of world Protestantism.

probably not true, but irrelevant never the less....

You were unaware that Luther and Calvin profoundly influenced Protestant theology across time and across denominations.

you were wrong when you claimed that all protestant theology was rooted in the teachings of Luther and Calvin....

I get it.....you are embarrassed and cannot admit that you fucked up.......but its time to let go of your ignorance.......

[Cypress]

no one argues that they didn't have a profound impact on the world....but your claim was....


Luther's theology influences Lutherans and Calvin's theology influences Calvinists, such as myself........it is ludicrous to say that the theology of denominations antithetical to both has its roots in their theology........all Protestants shared their opposition to the theology of the RCC and shared finding their roots in scripture.......that is where Luther, Calvin, and all the other Reformers found their roots......

Here you go...

"John Calvin was the leading French Protestant reformer and the most important figure in the second generation of the Protestant Reformation. His interpretation of Christianity, advanced above all in his Institutio Christianae religionis, and the institutional and social patterns he worked out for Geneva deeply influenced Protestantism elsewhere in Europe and in North America

https://www.britannica.com/biography/John-Calvin

All I wrote was that Protestant theology rests on a tenet of justification by faith, and that Martin Luther and John Calvin deeply and profoundly influenced Protestant theology irrespective of faith.

That is just rudimentary Protestant history and not even remotely controversial.