John Lame Deer

[Cypress]

Indigenous American philosopher John Lame Deer, a medicine man of the Lakota Sioux, shares insights with some of the other critics of modernity, such as Tolstoy and Nietzsche.

Modern Western culture draws a clear line between the biological world of plants and animals and the nonbiological world of minerals. But for Lame Deer, this line is dangerous because the biological world depends on the nonbiological one. To call rocks and minerals "dead" gives a kind of implicit permission to commodify that world and despoil it. Further, domestication has changed animals from creatures with beauty and integrity to artificial things that can live only on feed lots or in cages-things that are symbolic of exactly what might be uncomfortable for us. Ultimately, we no longer even think of ourselves as biological animals who live in an ecosystem but in terms of our functions in an economic order. We thus imprison ourselves and are complicit in our own imprisonment.

The end of this path of rejecting the symbolic and the natural, of fetishizing commodities, and of denying that we are biological animals is a completely ersatz life, a life that's a stand-in for a real life. For Lame Deer, the nature of modernity is to turn us into spectators, not even of our own lives but of other people's lives. We become prisoners looking at televisions that give us views into other people's cells.

The symbol of the Native American is the circle, which not only resembles and describes the character of nature but is also a representational symbol. In the repetition of circles in the universe-the planets, the stars, the rainbow- Lame Deer sees "symbols and reality at the same time, expressing the harmony of life and nature." But we end up living in a world that's square, not a world that's circular; a world that's a prison, not a world that's organic. That's not a world that any of us would choose to live in, despite the fact that every day, in every action, we make choices that entail the necessity of just such a world.

In contrast, the symbol of non-Native Americans is the square, seen in houses, office buildings, and walls. Our world, too, is full of symbols, but they are the wrong symbols-symbols of separation. The truly meaningful life is the organic life, the life that is in unity with nature and represented by the circle. What's wrong with modernity is not that it fails to be meaningful but that it means the wrong things.


-Source Credit: Professor Jay L. Garfield, Smith College

[Cypress]

Probably the only thread in jpp history examining the indigenous religious tradition of Animism.

[Cypress]

Despite numerous internal differences, most North American Indians’ religions shared several characteristics.

They believed in a powerful and benign “Great Spirit” and a powerful evil spirit or devil.

They also believed in lesser spirits, inhabiting animals, rivers, the Sun, the wind, the trees, and fire.

Everyday activities were surrounded by rituals, which were designed to propitiate and win favor from the spirits.

They believed in an afterlife.

Although the Europeans who met them were struck by the great differences between their own religion and that of the Indians, we can also note some distinct similarities.

Both believed in the body-soul split, in good and evil spirits, in life after death, and in the power of prayer to remedy illness and anxiety.
A flood myth was common among the Indians, as among Christians.
Both groups understood the religious significance of a sacrificial death




Source credit: Patrick Allit, Emory University

[Doc Dutch]

Probably the only thread in jpp history examining the indigenous religious tradition of Animism.

Eastern philosophy also looks at life and the Universe as a circle. It's Western philosophy to see the Universe as straight lines and right angles.

[Cypress]

Eastern philosophy also looks at life and the Universe as a circle. It's Western philosophy to see the Universe as straight lines and right angles.

I heard someone say that time is cyclical in Hinduism while time is linear In western civilization.

I have a basic working knowledge of Eastern philosophy and western empiricism, but I don't know very much about the religious and philosophical traditions of the indigenous Americans.

[Tinkerpeach]

Who says they are correct and we are wrong?

The native Americans weren’t really that bright you know

[Doc Dutch]

I heard someone say that time is cyclical in Hinduism while time is linear In western civilization.

I have a basic working knowledge of Eastern philosophy and western empiricism, but I don't know very much about the religious and philosophical traditions of the indigenous Americans.

Aside from some comparative religious studies, I don't know much about religious traditions of indigenous Americans. Since there were a lot of different tribes, it would take a lot of study.

[Tinkerpeach]

Aside from some comparative religious studies, I don't know much about religious traditions of indigenous Americans. Since there were a lot of different tribes, it would take a lot of study.

They all practiced some form of animism as far as I know. So while their tribal beliefs and rituals may have differed they all pretty much relied on the same foundation

[Doc Dutch]

They all practiced some form of animism as far as I know. So while their tribal beliefs and rituals may have differed they all pretty much relied on the same foundation

Nature? God's creation?

[ThatOwlWoman]

They all practiced some form of animism as far as I know. So while their tribal beliefs and rituals may have differed they all pretty much relied on the same foundation

Shows how little you know, racist skank.

[ThatOwlWoman]

Despite numerous internal differences, most North American Indians’ religions shared several characteristics.

They believed in a powerful and benign “Great Spirit” and a powerful evil spirit or devil.

They also believed in lesser spirits, inhabiting animals, rivers, the Sun, the wind, the trees, and fire.

Not exactly accurate. These things have their own spirits, just as we humans do. We are not "inhabited by" our souls. Rather the soul or spirit is part of the whole. "Inhabited by" implies that the spirit is not part of the whole entity.

Everyday activities were surrounded by rituals, which were designed to propitiate and win favor from the spirits.

Be aware of, honor is better wording.

They believed in an afterlife.

Although the Europeans who met them were struck by the great differences between their own religion and that of the Indians, we can also note some distinct similarities.

Both believed in the body-soul split, in good and evil spirits, in life after death, and in the power of prayer to remedy illness and anxiety.
A flood myth was common among the Indians, as among Christians.
Both groups understood the religious significance of a sacrificial death

Source credit: Patrick Allit, Emory University

Thanks for bumping this thread. Sorry that I missed it the first time.

[ThatOwlWoman]

I heard someone say that time is cyclical in Hinduism while time is linear In western civilization.

I have a basic working knowledge of Eastern philosophy and western empiricism, but I don't know very much about the religious and philosophical traditions of the indigenous Americans.

In general their beliefs were more akin to Hinduism than to Western religions. They did not see time and life as a linear thing either.

We should always keep in mind how much knowledge of various indigenous nations' spiritual beliefs was lost due to relocation, forced assimilation, and suppression of spiritual practices. In addition, the arrival of European priests and their teachings caused some Xtian beliefs (the devil being one) to become at least partially incorporated into indigenous faiths.

[ThatOwlWoman]

Who says they are correct and we are wrong?

The native Americans weren’t really that bright you know

I'll let my PhD-holding Ojibwe and Mohawk professors know of this startling new revelation from a low-info, low IQ Trumpanzee.

[Tinkerpeach]

I'll let my PhD-holding Ojibwe and Mohawk professors know of this startling new revelation from a low-info, low IQ Trumpanzee.

It’s simply the truth.

Having a doctorate doesn’t change that.

They were barely advancing as societies which is why the Europeans were so easily able to steamroll over them.

They had almost no advancement in technology, their medical practices revolved around mysticism and their ability to produce agricultural was at a bare minimum.

Since they were established before the civilizations in South America they should have been far ahead of people like the Aztec or Mayans but they weren’t

Make sure to bring that up to your professors

[ThatOwlWoman]

It’s simply the truth.

Having a doctorate doesn’t change that.

They were barely advancing as societies which is why the Europeans were so easily able to steamroll over them.

They had almost no advancement in technology, their medical practices revolved around mysticism and their ability to produce agricultural was at a bare minimum.

Since they were established before the civilizations in South America they should have been far ahead of people like the Aztec or Mayans but they weren’t

Make sure to bring that up to your professors

I don't argue with insects, rocks, or stupid people. You are welcome to your erroneous, racist, and uneducated beliefs. Enjoy your ignorance, and wallow in it. Toodles!