Cypress (02-09-2021)
Members banned from this thread: BRUTALITOPS, Minister of Truth, The Anonymous, USFREEDOM911, cancel2 2022, Legion, Truth Detector, Niche Political Commentor, Superfreak, volsrock, Yurt, Earl, Lord Yurt, OG Yurt, serenity, Yakuda and Son of the Revolution |
Cypress (02-09-2021)
ThatOwlWoman (02-09-2021)
I think the key differences were that Jesus stood for working people and his first followers shared all things in common whereas Socrates was heavily in with the oligarchs and disliked democracy, which is why the Athenians saw him off after they'd suffered the Thirty Tyrants..
Cypress (02-09-2021), Phantasmal (02-09-2021), ThatOwlWoman (02-09-2021)
thanks for that insight
I do not think it is quite accurate to say Socrates was openly hostile to Athenian democracy. Though that is what his enemies who wanted him executed would have the citizens of Athens believe.
In Plato's Republic, Socrates identifies democracy as one of the three forms of "good" government, along with aristocracy, and monarchy. The bad forms of governments were tyranny, oligarchy, anarchy. According to Plato, Socrates did have many criticisms of Athenian democracy, that is was inferior to a well run aristocracy --- but at the end of the day he and Plato knew that the freedom of speech and freedom of conscience they enjoyed would probably only be found in a democracy.
too right you are.
Definitely. Jesus was probably a peasant from the provincial backwater of Galilee, and his ministry probably only had a couple dozen followers. In that sense, Paul took his message and, as you rightly state, he and Constantine really were the ones responsible for the global reach of Christianity.
Phantasmal (02-09-2021)
Phantasmal (02-09-2021)
It is a clear fact though that Socrates supporters and students tended to come very largely from the Athenian aristocracy, though there were the odd exceptions. After what had been happening in Athens, that was not something that made for easy survival any more than being unenthusiastic for Roman rule did in Palestine, and clearly Socrates deliberate refusal to survive by proposing a lighter sentence and not going into exile deserve comparison with the events following on from the Entry into Jerusalem.
Along with the Buddha, I should say, these two seem to me to be the historical persons I find most interesting and most worth digging under the later detritus to learn more about.
Cypress (02-09-2021), Phantasmal (02-09-2021), ThatOwlWoman (02-09-2021)
Cypress (02-09-2021), ThatOwlWoman (02-09-2021)
Phantasmal (02-09-2021)
I completely agree that Socrates and Plato were predisposed to a rule by the aristocracy and had their reasons to harbor doubts about the Athenian democracy.
You and I are on the same page in finding Socrates" Jesus, and Siddhartha Guatama to be among the most compelling historical figures of antiquity. Jesus and Siddhartha seemingly have parallels too, as their message was one of individual spiritual liberation, a proto democratic posture, in the face of the elitist and communal practices of Greco Roman world and the Vedic Brahmanistic tradition
Iolo/Penderyn (02-09-2021), Phantasmal (02-09-2021), ThatOwlWoman (02-09-2021)
Cypress (02-09-2021), ThatOwlWoman (02-09-2021)
Bookmarks