Should High School's Have Competitive Admission Processes?

**Mott the Hoople** · 02-06-2021, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by cawacko

Did you go to a Columbus high school or a suburban one?

Hell no. I graduated from Coldwater Village High School. It’s a small farming community near the Indiana border. Do you know where Lake St. Mary is in west Ohio?

**cawacko** · 02-06-2021, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople

I understand that but if you can’t accept all of the ones who merit the opportunity it will more often than not boil down to those kids from affluent families will have a big advantage in getting accepted vs those who don’t and, as I said, you don’t necessarily need that to accomplish the environment you described. I very much had that environment in the AP curriculum I had at Cowtown high. Population 2,500. So ok, my bubble was a lot smaller but it was still the same environment.

This isn't about suburbs or rural areas. This is an urban thing. My guess is you were assigned to your high school based on where you lived correct? Like when your parents bought (or rented) your home it said you are assigned to this elementary/middle/high school. I don't know about NYC, but in SF we don't have that. There are no neighborhood schools. You can state your school preferences, but you are put in a lottery. So your kid could end up in a school 30 minutes across town in a low income area where half the students are ESL learners. Some parents don't mind that, but a lot do. Thus the appeal of merit based Lowell.

**cawacko** · 02-06-2021, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople

Hell no. I graduated from Coldwater Village High School. It’s a small farming community near the Indiana border. Do you know where Lake St. Mary is in west Ohio?

hmmm, not familiar with it. How far away from Bucyrus? (that's where my best friend grew up)

Edit: Niche gives the school good reviews. Was looking at where most of the kids go to college. According to Niche most stay in state?

**Mott the Hoople** · 02-06-2021, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Jack

Not sure what that has to do with the Topic. (?)

It has to do with the pressure to get admitted to elite schools.

In much of Asia families place incredible pressures on their kids to perform well enough to get into elite Universities. They go to public primary schools with more rigorous academic standards. If you don’t meet those standards they flunk you out. Most kids come home from school, eat dinner, then go to prep schools at night to prepare for National exams, then come home and study late. There’s no time permitted for fun and games. Which is why their schools don’t have team sports programs like ours.

The end result is that most high school graduates from these Asian countries seriously outperform their American counterparts in math, science and language. It’s also why they have some of the highest teen suicide rates in the world.

Not to mention not much of a childhood. The sad thing is that after four years of college that performance gap between US students and their Asian counterparts disappears. Largely because we emphasize strong academic rigor more at the University level. To the degree that 600 of the top 1,000 Universities in the world are in the US.

The point I’m making is to muchpressure placed on children to gain admittance to elite primary and secondary schools can be harmful to the child’s over all development.

**Mott the Hoople** · 02-06-2021, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by cawacko

hmmm, not familiar with it. How far away from Bucyrus? (that's where my best friend grew up)

Edit: Niche gives the school good reviews. Was looking at where most of the kids go to college. According to Niche most stay in state?

Bucyrus is about 60 miles due north of Columbus. Coldwater is about 100 miles north west of Columbus about ten miles or so from the Indiana border.

For a rural Ohio region Coldwater high school has outstanding performance but I only attended school there for a year and hated it because it wasn’t as good as the high school i attended in Iowa. It was also a big culture shock. I didn’t like it because they openly descriminated against me and purposely sabotaged my academic record when we moved there. At the time they didn’t appreciate us Protestants to much. I hated it there. You probably would have committed suicide.

Their damn good at football in the region. They won the division V State Championship last year. I think that’s the fourth or fifth time in like the last 20 years. Something must be in the water there. You’ll sit down at a local pub and the person next to you will be 6’ tall and 200# and that’s just the women.

**Minister of Truth** · 02-06-2021, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Micawber

No. Close thread.

I was going to post this.

**cawacko** · 02-06-2021, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople

It has to do with the pressure to get admitted to elite schools.

In much of Asia families place incredible pressures on their kids to perform well enough to get into elite Universities. They go to public primary schools with more rigorous academic standards. If you don’t meet those standards they flunk you out. Most kids come home from school, eat dinner, then go to prep schools at night to prepare for National exams, then come home and study late. There’s no time permitted for fun and games. Which is why their schools don’t have team sports programs like ours.

The end result is that most high school graduates from these Asian countries seriously outperform their American counterparts in math, science and language. It’s also why they have some of the highest teen suicide rates in the world.

Not to mention not much of a childhood. The sad thing is that after four years of college that performance gap between US students and their Asian counterparts disappears. Largely because we emphasize strong academic rigor more at the University level. To the degree that 600 of the top 1,000 Universities in the world are in the US.

The point I’m making is to muchpressure placed on children to gain admittance to elite primary and secondary schools can be harmful to the child’s over all development.

My best friend, the one from Bucyrus, married a Korean girl (she went to USC as well). They live in L.A. and their daughter is six. I asked her (the wife) if she'd ever send her kid to an LA public school. I can't even begin to describe the look she gave me. They're sending her to some elite school in Hollywood then plan on sending her to the Marlborough School in LA which is the #7 ranked all girls high school in the country ($45K +/yr). She said "I'd be so embarrassed if she only gets into USC". USC is what the #25 ranked school in the country? She wants Harvard but will accept any Ivy League school. That's the tiger mom mindset.

But we think about how many parents aren't involved in their kid's lives. Not to say being overbearing is a good thing but I don't think the reason we shouldn't have merit based schools is because some Asian families push their kids too hard.

**The Anonymous** · 02-06-2021, 05:54 PM

**Jack** · 02-06-2021, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople

It has to do with the pressure to get admitted to elite schools.

In much of Asia families place incredible pressures on their kids to perform well enough to get into elite Universities. They go to public primary schools with more rigorous academic standards. If you don’t meet those standards they flunk you out. Most kids come home from school, eat dinner, then go to prep schools at night to prepare for National exams, then come home and study late. There’s no time permitted for fun and games. Which is why their schools don’t have team sports programs like ours.

The end result is that most high school graduates from these Asian countries seriously outperform their American counterparts in math, science and language. It’s also why they have some of the highest teen suicide rates in the world.

Not to mention not much of a childhood. The sad thing is that after four years of college that performance gap between US students and their Asian counterparts disappears. Largely because we emphasize strong academic rigor more at the University level. To the degree that 600 of the top 1,000 Universities in the world are in the US.

The point I’m making is to muchpressure placed on children to gain admittance to elite primary and secondary schools can be harmful to the child’s over all development.

I don't see that in the US. I don't know of any 'Elite' Grade Schools in the US, though there may be some. If there are, they are probably Private and not Public.
In the US, the schools are in local areas where the Locals reside. If you live in a wealthy suburb, you probably go to school with a bunch of wealthy kids ... where the 'English Course' is not a problem.
If you live in the Inner City, you probably go to school with kids from the Projects ... where the 'English Course' is something you actually have to study.

**The Anonymous** · 02-06-2021, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Jackoff

I don't know of any 'Elite' Grade Schools in the US.

There's a lot you don't know.

**Mott the Hoople** · 02-06-2021, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by cawacko

My best friend, the one from Bucyrus, married a Korean girl (she went to USC as well). They live in L.A. and their daughter is six. I asked her (the wife) if she'd ever send her kid to an LA public school. I can't even begin to describe the look she gave me. They're sending her to some elite school in Hollywood then plan on sending her to the Marlborough School in LA which is the #7 ranked all girls high school in the country ($45K +/yr). She said "I'd be so embarrassed if she only gets into USC". USC is what the #25 ranked school in the country? She wants Harvard but will accept any Ivy League school. That's the tiger mom mindset.

But we think about how many parents aren't involved in their kid's lives. Not to say being overbearing is a good thing but I don't think the reason we shouldn't have merit based schools is because some Asian families push their kids too hard.

Oh I don’t either but either extreme is not good. I mean if I have $45 kpy to spare each year (I don’t) and it’s not going to give my kid ulcers or a nervous breakdown then that’s great but I learned a long time ago that happiness isn’t about a Harvard Education or a top tier social status. It’s about learning how to live well. You don’t need Harvard for that (though it probably doesn’t hurt).

Koreans seem to be odd that way. It’s like you either get into Harvard and earn two post docs or you’ve failed at life and will push a broom for a career.

**Mott the Hoople** · 02-06-2021, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by Jack

I don't see that in the US. I don't know of any 'Elite' Grade Schools in the US, though there may be some. If there are, they are probably Private and not Public.
In the US, the schools are in local areas where the Locals reside. If you live in a wealthy suburb, you probably go to school with a bunch of wealthy kids ... where the 'English Course' is not a problem.
If you live in the Inner City, you probably go to school with kids from the Projects ... where the 'English Course' is something you actually have to study.

Yea it’s completely different in a lot of Asian countries. They don’t give the kids a break. It’s all about getting into the best schools at all ages.

**cawacko** · 02-06-2021, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople

Oh I don’t either but either extreme is not good. I mean if I have $45 kpy to spare each year (I don’t) and it’s not going to give my kid ulcers or a nervous breakdown then that’s great but I learned a long time ago that happiness isn’t about a Harvard Education or a top tier social status. It’s about learning how to live well. You don’t need Harvard for that (though it probably doesn’t hurt).

Koreans seem to be odd that way. It’s like you either get into Harvard and earn two post docs or you’ve failed at life and will push a broom for a career.

Haha. It's interesting, she went to USC so she's no dummy but she had no career aspirations herself. She had a job translating American films into Korean until she met my friend. My buddy's worth 8 figures so she married well.

(They also live in L.A. L.A. is very status symbol orientated in a multitude of ways including "where does your kid go to school?" "where did you go to school?" etc. Kind of the beauty of my buddy. He's made a lot of money but at his core is still the same guy who grew up in the middle of BFE Bucyrus.)

**Jack** · 02-06-2021, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople

Yea it’s completely different in a lot of Asian countries. They don’t give the kids a break. It’s all about getting into the best schools at all ages.

"Tiger parenting
Tiger parenting is a form of strict or demanding parenting. Tiger parents push and pressure their children to attaining high levels of academic achievement or success in high-status extracurricular activities such as music, using authoritarian parenting methods.Wikipedia"

I think we're all aware of what happens in Asia.
I don't think that is what is happening here.

I think Cawacko is describing something that happens in large Cities. Lots of Poor People, marbleized with a few well off families, that all want to go to a school NOT inhabited with a bunch of Dumbasses that realize they ain't going anywhere in Life.

--->"It's not the school you go to, it's the people you go to school with".

**Minister of Truth** · 02-06-2021, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by cawacko

hmmm, not familiar with it. How far away from Bucyrus? (that's where my best friend grew up)

Edit: Niche gives the school good reviews. Was looking at where most of the kids go to college. According to Niche most stay in state?

One thing I have wondered about, but never got around to looking up, is whether any districts have contributed in some way to those meal programs for the low-income families.

In my town, I discovered the Boys & Girls Club was keeping a weekly log of the families who received boxed groceries from them (number of children and which schools they attended).