Doc Dutch (09-08-2023), Guno צְבִי (09-05-2023)
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G.E. Moore's Principia Ethica gives three thought experiments that suggest there is an objective side to value beyond the purely subjective.
A first argument is that beauty can have an intrinsic value, even if no one is around to see it. A universe that lacks any conciousness, but has the grand canyon, sunsets, waterfalls is still better than an opaque and colorless universe. Moore claims this shows beauty has an intrinsic objective value, even if no one is around to see it. .
The second argument is the magic button thought experiment. You have a choice to push a button which will convert us all into brains in a vat where Matrix type technology creates the neural experience for all of us of a living a pleasant best-possible digital pseudo-life. Moore says very few people would push the button because there is an intrinsic and object value to having contact with reality.
The third argument is the principle of organic unities. The case in which a person takes pleasure in a child's pain. The fact that someone takes pleasure in anothers pain does not mean the value of the whole is simply the value of the pleasure minus the pain. This kind of pleasure is morally tainted, what matters is the objective nature of the relationship between the two sensations. Here again, there is an objective side to values.
Doc Dutch (09-08-2023), Guno צְבִי (09-05-2023)
Well,Socrates,Plato ,Kant were into "values" but I like Cypress have no opinion
Guno צְבִי (09-05-2023)
"Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" - George Carlin
"Education is a system of imposed ignorance" - Noam Chomsky
"Leftists actually think everyone is as stupid as a leftist." - Yakuda
"No, Trump isn't a fascist, tatt boy." - moon
Guno צְבִי (09-05-2023)
"Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" - George Carlin
"Education is a system of imposed ignorance" - Noam Chomsky
"Leftists actually think everyone is as stupid as a leftist." - Yakuda
"No, Trump isn't a fascist, tatt boy." - moon
"Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" - George Carlin
"Education is a system of imposed ignorance" - Noam Chomsky
"Leftists actually think everyone is as stupid as a leftist." - Yakuda
"No, Trump isn't a fascist, tatt boy." - moon
Into the Night (09-06-2023)
Universal values aren't supposed to come with a guarantee that everyone, everywhere, and all times will meet the expectations.
What they do is set a universal standard society agrees we should shoot for.
People who break promises or take pleasure in abusing children are almost universally regarded as assholes because they are violating a universal ethical standard.
Guno צְבִי (09-05-2023)
"Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" - George Carlin
"Education is a system of imposed ignorance" - Noam Chomsky
"Leftists actually think everyone is as stupid as a leftist." - Yakuda
"No, Trump isn't a fascist, tatt boy." - moon
There's a reason people don't brag about breaking promises
Don't boast about cheating on their wives
Don't talk about the pleasure they feel about hitting small children.
Because they intuitively know they are social deviants, that they are just violating universal ethical standards and would be considered assholes by peers and community.
"Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" - George Carlin
"Education is a system of imposed ignorance" - Noam Chomsky
"Leftists actually think everyone is as stupid as a leftist." - Yakuda
"No, Trump isn't a fascist, tatt boy." - moon
Cypress (09-05-2023)
The fact that you don't openly brag about breaking promises to relatives, business partners, spouses is not evidence you just have different, but equally justifiable ethical standards.
It means you know you are practicing social deviancy in direct conflict with society's universal ethical values.
Last edited by Yakuda; 09-05-2023 at 01:29 PM.
"Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" - George Carlin
"Education is a system of imposed ignorance" - Noam Chomsky
"Leftists actually think everyone is as stupid as a leftist." - Yakuda
"No, Trump isn't a fascist, tatt boy." - moon
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