What happens if Biden gets his $15 minimum wage passed?

[Bulletbob]

Well, it would appear that according to your map human misery in the US would be approximately cut in half with a doubling of menial wages.

no it would not at all, there would be temporary benefits to low income workers .
first employers will try to improve productivity by cutting jobs they can no long to afford to pay for, also I see more automation , and as anyone who is not dead from the neck up would know it will drive up cost. Also it will end up causing more jobs going overseas.
with prices going up it will hurt the very workers who you claim it will help by them having to pay more for everything and fewer jobs being available.
everything from parts for cars to a fast food hamburger will increase in price.

Im not against small increases in minimum wage to account for inflation but the true way to help people and improve there income is learning a trade that is marketable and has value, in other words people have to better themself not just want more. I wanted more when I was young growing up on a farm and dong hard labor at home and for my first jobs but eventually got sick of it and went to a trade school and started the process of making my self marketable and valuable .
If the industry s I was in I took the combines skills I had developed and applied them to other industry's and was willing to travel .

Its just a common sense thing , you either make your self marketable and valuable to employers or you dont and put your self in dead in jobs that have low wages little benefits and no future./

[Into the Night]

Only considering the short run equilibrium is special pleading (a typical right wing modus operandi).

What equilibrium??? Straw man fallacy. Fallacy fallacy.

Higher paid labor creates more in demand.

People out of work make no wage.

The multiplier effect does the rest in the long run.

People out of work make no wage.

And, higher paid labor also generates more in tax revenue.

People out of work make no wage.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage generates over nine times more federal income tax revenue than does the current minimum wage.

People out of work make no wage.

So, from that perspective, anything less than a nine to one ratio of personnel getting laid off would still generate more federal income tax revenue from labor still working.

People out of work make no wage. Argument from randU fallacy. You are making up numbers again.

From another perspective that shows no taxes paid from labor making less than forty thousand a year, savings to the public sector still occur due to less earned income tax credit revenue claimed by labor with a higher income. And, that labor still creates more demand and still generate more general tax revenue by simply spending more money.

People out of work make no wage.

Price controls do not work. Wage controls are price controls. It is government interference of markets. That's fascism. Price controls always cause shortages. Companies will cut back on it's employees to stay profitable. They have to. Wage controls put people out of work.

[Into the Night]

So you say. Care to explain how that would happen? What was observed is different from what you claim.

Hallucinations are not an observation.

[Into the Night]

A rise in wages could be considered that form of inflation.

Nope. It's fascism. Inflation is caused by printing money faster than wealth being created. That is the only cause.

You are claiming it does not result in growth of any demand or supply.

People out of work make no wages.

Wages outpacing inflation and the multiplier is still considered growth, ceteris paribus.

People out of work make no wages. You are still using 'multiplier' like a buzzword.

[Into the Night]

Only if you limit yourself to dictionary definitions invented for the Cold War.

Dictionaries do not define words. Denial of history. Capitalism existed before the cold war and will exist long after. Socialism existed before the cold war and will exist long after.

Relying on (simplistic) dictionary definitions is special pleading.

Fallacy fallacy. False authority fallacy. Dictionaries do not define words.

An encyclopedic definition is much more comprehensive.

False authority fallacy. Encyclopedias do not define words either. No dictionary or encyclopedia owns any word.

And yes, we do have a mixed market economy not true capitalism.

True Scotsman fallacy. Capitalism and socialism are not governments or nations.

Government is social-ism (socialism) not free market capitalism.

Capitalism and socialism are not governments or nations.

How did you reach that conclusion?

RQAA.

Capitalism is about boom and bust

Already said this. The booms and busts of capitalism are self correcting.

and inequality

WRONG. Capitalism is about equal opportunity for all. ANYONE can play. ANYONE can go out and create wealth.

based on price differentials,

Capitalism is not prices. Neither is socialism.

demand and supply,

Capitalism is based on supply and demand. Socialism is based on government interventions, and attempts to control markets by people that have no idea what the market is.

and the ability to arbitrage.

Nope. It's about price discovery, not arbitrage.

Socialism is about equality

WRONG. Socialism steals wealth from the productive, and gives it to the unproductive. It is theft of wealth. That is INEQUALITY.

and in our case about equal protection of the laws.

WRONG. The productive are not treated the same as the unproductive in the eyes of the law.

Capitalism offers no such protections.

Capitalism requires no government. It is self recovering. It does not need government protection. People protect it already themselves.

Slavery was part of Capitalism not Socialism.

Slavery is socialism. It is theft of wealth from the slaves, who do the work and create the wealth, so the slave owner, who is unproductive, can keep it.

Socialism is about social order.

WRONG. Socialism is theft of wealth. It is rife with revolts, government overthrow, retaliations by government against their own people, and misery.

Government secures that via the coercive use of force.

Socialism can only be implemented by oligarchies or dictatorships. People don't like their wealth being stolen.

Democratic socialism is to the left of national socialism.

Socialism is not a form of government. Socialism is not a country.

The collapse of the bronze Age was a capital bust,

Nope. The Bronze Age ended with the Iron Age started. New and improved methods of making things fundamentally changed society. Capitalism. BTW, bronze is still used today in many places (including engine bearings, marine equipment, musical instruments, etc.

along with 1929.

The crash of '29' was a result of over speculation brought about by Wilson's policies, the creation of the Federal Reserve, and WW1. The resulting downturn was worldwide. Similar to the 2007 crash, caused for much of the same reasons as the 2001 crash, just a different market of over speculation.

Not capitalism. Gambling.

FDR's response by expanding government and interfering with markets extended this downturn into a depression that lasted until he left office and well after WW2 ended. By then, the inflation was now effectively institutionalized, and has been with us ever since. The U.S. government is now broke. It cannot pay for itself without printing funky money to pay for it, which only sets up a spiral. A cash crash is now inevitable, it's only a matter of time. People are already looking for an alternative currency. No government can stop it.

Socialism is about correcting for market failures when necessary.

Socialism IS a market failure. It is theft of wealth.

[Into the Night]

Socialism works anywhere Government works. Anarcho-Capitalism failed with the fall of Mogadishu. All capital economies without government are third world not first world.

Define 'third world'. Do you include the United States in that?

[Into the Night]

There is no free market since the fall of Mogadishu.

WRONG. See your local drug dealer for details.

[Into the Night]

no it would not at all, there would be temporary benefits to low income workers .
first employers will try to improve productivity by cutting jobs they can no long to afford to pay for, also I see more automation , and as anyone who is not dead from the neck up would know it will drive up cost. Also it will end up causing more jobs going overseas.
with prices going up it will hurt the very workers who you claim it will help by them having to pay more for everything and fewer jobs being available.
everything from parts for cars to a fast food hamburger will increase in price.

Im not against small increases in minimum wage to account for inflation but the true way to help people and improve there income is learning a trade that is marketable and has value, in other words people have to better themself not just want more. I wanted more when I was young growing up on a farm and dong hard labor at home and for my first jobs but eventually got sick of it and went to a trade school and started the process of making my self marketable and valuable .
If the industry s I was in I took the combines skills I had developed and applied them to other industry's and was willing to travel .

Its just a common sense thing , you either make your self marketable and valuable to employers or you dont and put your self in dead in jobs that have low wages little benefits and no future./

ANYTHING dictating prices for wages is fascism. It is government manipulation of markets and prices.

Wages, like any price are set by market forces. Governments trying to manipulate that will always cause shortages, such as shortages of jobs and they move overseas to find employees willing to work for the market price.

[danielpalos]

ANYTHING dictating prices for wages is fascism. It is government manipulation of markets and prices.

Wages, like any price are set by market forces. Governments trying to manipulate that will always cause shortages, such as shortages of jobs and they move overseas to find employees willing to work for the market price.

So you claim. Congress is delegated the power to fix Standards for the Union. Besides, minimum wages are not maximum wages. And, wages have not kept up with inflation as they should have if Capitalism was as effective as you claim.

Fixing a minimum wage merely changes that equilibrium for business. You are being disingenuous since business can pass some costs on to their customers and usually do whenever they can get away with it.

[Into the Night]

So you claim. Congress is delegated the power to fix Standards for the Union.

Price controls are not a weight or a measure. They are fascism. They violate the Constitution of the United States of America. See the 4th,5th, and 14th amendments. Of course, you do not recognize the Constitution. You cannot use 'standards setting' to cancel the rest of the Constitution. Yes, the SOA can set standard (like screw thread sizes, and other weights and measures). No one is required to use any of them. There is no phrase 'setting standards' in the Constitution.

Besides, minimum wages are not maximum wages.

Never said they were. Strawman fallacy.

And, wages have not kept up with inflation as they should have if Capitalism was as effective as you claim.

Inflation is caused by socialist actions by the government. They are printing money faster than wealth creation. Thanks to Democrats, they are trying to eliminate capitalism to implement fascism (a form of socialism) by oligarchy.

Fixing a minimum wage merely changes that equilibrium for business.

No. Market manipulation is not equilibrium. It is fascism.

You are being disingenuous

Inversion fallacy.

since business can pass some costs on to their customers

No, they won't. They will just reduce costs. They can't raise the prices indiscriminately. They have to compete not only with other businesses in the same nation, they have to compete with other nations, and they have to have prices low enough to entice people to buy. They will simply fire minimum wage employees and go to automation or run on a reduced crew. You don't get this simple fact. It is YOU being disingenuous.

People out of work are not making wages.

and usually do whenever they can get away with it.

No. Businesses can't just raise their price indiscriminately.

[danielpalos]

Yes, they are. It isn't fascism simply because you say so. Our drug war is fascism since there is no general warfare clause nor any common offense clause. Yet, You have a problem helping the People over the Profit.


It can't be fascism if there are no maximum wage limits.


You simply make stuff up and expect us to believe you. QE was Government simply printing money. Where was the inflation, or do you only have a problem with the Poor making more money?


Special pleading like usual? Simply Regulating Commerce is market manipulation, according to Your point of view.


Why won't businesses simply raise their cost to meet that change in market equilibrium that affects all markets affected by that change in the minimum wage. You make seem like right wingers don't care about their potential customers.


Only You are claiming an indiscriminate price increase when everybody knows it is a public law that caused the change.

[Underdog]

[PoliTalker]

Hello danielpalos,

Government is spending is fiscal policy that Congress commands and controls. Our alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror are sufficient proof. We have a command economy not free market capitalism.

If your definition of 'free market capitalism' means no government intervention at all, then you are correct. And I think it is a very good thing we don't have totally free market capitalism. If we did, we would have a terrible problem with wide spread destitution, and wealth inequality would be far more extreme than it already is.

[danielpalos]

The Point is, businesses pass on costs to the consumer all the time. Why are they complaining about passing this cost on as well since it is due to public sector intervention?

[Truth Detector]

So, what happens if Biden gets the minimum wage to $15 an hour?

First, he can only mandate that on Federal workers, who, for the most part, are making far more than that. BUT, when EO'd into law around Congress, it will hurt the very people who have been savaged by Government mandated shut downs the most.

Only uneducated morons in the Democratic Party of the Jackass cheer such stupidity.