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Thread: What happens if Biden gets his $15 minimum wage passed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Argument of the stone fallacies. He is asking you questions. Answer the questions put to you.
    He was not asking any relevant questions merely alleging he must be Right simply for being on the right wing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Being thrown out of work is NOT a higher paid labor.
    Not everyone is, thrown out of work. Automatic stabilizers such as unemployment compensation help stabilize that situation. And, higher paid labor creates more in demand and generates more in federal income tax revenue. In the long run, the economy will still grow and need more labor.

    Besides, your point is disingenuous when capitalists have no problem downsizing for profit instead of the people without any wage increases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Math error: Disjointed distribution of terms. Logic error: False equivalence fallacy. Four term fallacy.

    Circular argument fallacy. Four term fallacy.

    Pivot fallacy. Four term fallacy. Buzzword fallacy.

    No argument presented. Denial of mathematics. Denial of logic.
    lol. You must be on the right wing. You need rational arguments for rebuttal not merely projecting and using the argument you projected onto me by appealing to your right wing stone instead of reason. Typical of the right wing who have only fallacy, but still want to taken as seriously as the "gospel Truth".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post
    Yes and no, but mostly yes. There is no such thing as pure capitalism or pure socialism. Entrepreneurial drive has led to great advances in science and medicine. But ultimately capitalism has a single goal: profit. Government is necessary to ensure that the goal of corporate profits is not realized at the expense of the common good. Government has by and large failed at doing that, which is why we have an enormous wage/wealth gap.
    I agree to disagree. It is public policies than can make the difference in a mixed market economy. Besides, there are no true capitalism economies beyond the third world. Anarcho-Capitalism only worked for a relatively, little while until the fall of Mogadishu. Capitalism is about boom and bust and that form of inequality and is the reason we have socialism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    I agree to disagree. It is public policies than can make the difference in a mixed market economy. Besides, there are no true capitalism economies beyond the third world. Anarcho-Capitalism only worked for a relatively, little while until the fall of Mogadishu. Capitalism is about boom and bust and that form of inequality and is the reason we have socialism.
    Our wage and wealth gap indicate an inequality that is the antithesis of socialism. Socialism is not the driver of the US economy. Capitalism is. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have the economic inequality that we have now.

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    Hello T. A. Gardner,

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    What happens if Biden gets his $15 minimum wage passed?
    It probably gets phased in over a number of years, so there would be no immediate negative impact.

    A wise plan would give everyone time to adjust to what's coming and, frankly, long overdue.

    Most employers and workers would not be affected, because a very low percentage of workers are actually paid the minimum.

    Here are the benefits for America that I see:

    1. Some near-minimum wages would be raised accordingly, much to the relief of struggling low-end earners who are trying to make working worth while but having a pretty tough time of it.

    2. There would be some inflation, but it won't be anywhere near the difference of increased wages for low wage workers. And, after all, some inflation is actually a good thing. Our monetary system actually depends on it and would collapse without it. If deflation ever took hold it would be devastating to our economy.

    3. Low wage workers who currently hold several part-time jobs might find they are able to reduce the number of jobs they need, reduce the amount of commuting they do, reduce the costs for beater vehicles, vehicle maintenance and fuel. This could be helpful in the fight against global warming.

    4. Low wage parents with more time on their hands would be able to spend more time with their children, and do a better job of parenting.

    5. Struggling families who have been just out of reach of home ownership would be raised up to the level where they could save enough for a down payment and qualify for a mortgage.

    6. The prevalence of predatory lending institutions such as payday loan joints and 'buy-here-pay-here' car lots selling seriously overpriced worn-out lemons to desperate workers would be reduced.

    7. Dependence of the government dole would be reduced.

    8. The economy would get a boost due to low-wage workers having more spending power.

    9. Some people who have been unable to find legitimate work, and have turned to crime, may be more enthusiastic about working, and this would reduce our too-high prison population.

    AND:

    10. The race toward devastating extreme wealth inequality would be mitigated.

    The way I see it, it would be a 10-way win for America.
    Last edited by PoliTalker; 01-22-2021 at 08:32 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael_Panetta View Post
    And yet economists disagree with you.
    Who are these "economists" that you are referencing and why are they "holy"?

    Your response would make for a good Twitter warning though...

    (!)This claim about minimum wage laws is disputed by economists.

    Pathetic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael_Panetta View Post
    In countries where minimum wages are higher, the price of goods is the same as in the US.

    Go figure.
    The price of goods is determined by supply and demand.

    Minimum wage is a price control. Price controls cause shortages, in this case a shortage of jobs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post
    Our wage and wealth gap indicate an inequality that is the antithesis of socialism. Socialism is not the driver of the US economy. Capitalism is. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have the economic inequality that we have now.
    Congress commands fiscal policy and the fed commands monetary policy. Why do you believe (socialism) commanding an economy is not a driver of that economy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    Congress commands fiscal policy and the fed commands monetary policy. Why do you believe (socialism) commanding an economy is not a driver of that economy?
    Because Congress has not placed a 'socialist' fiscal policy in place. Your use of the word 'command' is inappropriate. Congress cannot command the economy to do anything. They can only regulate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post
    Because Congress has not placed a 'socialist' fiscal policy in place. Your use of the word 'command' is inappropriate. Congress cannot command the economy to do anything. They can only regulate.
    Government is spending is fiscal policy that Congress commands and controls. Our alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror are sufficient proof. We have a command economy not free market capitalism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    That form of wage push does help increase the multiplier effect, along with creating more demand and generating more tax revenue.
    It does not create more demand. Putting people out of work does not create more demand in the economy. It also generates LESS tax revenue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    How did you reach your conclusion?
    Math and history.
    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    It worked during WWII.
    No, it didn't. Destruction of wealth is not useful.
    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    Full employment was achieved by that command economy.
    Destruction of wealth is not an economy. Unemployment numbers are not an economy either..
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    That is not an argument
    It is a valid argument. Economies don't have an 'efficiency'. Price controls do not work. Socialism does not work. It only brings misery. Government interference with markets is fascism.
    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    but you begging the question.
    Fallacy fallacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    I could claim Capitalism doesn't work, Capitalism "died in 1929", and socialism has been bailing out Capitalism ever since.
    And you would be wrong.

    Capitalism is simply people producing wealth on their own. NO government is required. NO 'bailing out' is required. Capitalism is the only economic system that creates wealth.
    Socialism is theft of wealth. It the taking of the wealth of one and giving it to another that is not productive. Socialism can only exist when there is capitalism to steal from. Socialism can only be implemented by force, using oligarchies and dictatorships.

    Both existed in the United States. The Democrats are currently converting the federal government into the SOA, an full blown oligarchy to implement their fascism. They do not recognize the Constitution of the United States nor the constitution of any State.

    As capitalism is curtailed by edicts from the SOA, and by changing conditions imposed by the SOA, misery is sure to follow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post
    Yes and no, but mostly yes.
    There was no yes or no question asked. You are hallucinating again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post
    There is no such thing as pure capitalism or pure socialism.
    Yes there is. I have already described what capitalism is and what socialism is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post
    Entrepreneurial drive has led to great advances in science and medicine.
    Thanks to capitalism. Pure capitalism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post
    But ultimately capitalism has a single goal: profit.
    Nothing wrong with profit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post
    Government is necessary to ensure that the goal of corporate profits is not realized at the expense of the common good.
    That is fascism. Fuck you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Concart View Post
    Government has by and large failed at doing that, which is why we have an enormous wage/wealth gap.
    Buzzword fallacy. There is no such thing. Wages are not wealth.
    "The atmosphere is among the factors that determines the Earth's atmosphere." --ZenMode
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    You need valid arguments. Why do you believe inflation is not a form of growth? More people making more money, creating more demand and generating more tax revenue can be measured as the multiplier effect.
    Inflation is not growth. Money that is worth less than it was before it not growth. Money is not wealth. You are using 'mulitplier effect' as a buzzword...meaningless.
    "The atmosphere is among the factors that determines the Earth's atmosphere." --ZenMode
    "Donald has failed in almost every endeavor he has attempted. " --floridafan
    "Abortion is not a moral issue. " --BidenPresident
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