America Retreating from Religion

[Cypress]

not good. we have no morals. politics is a literal blood sport. people have no idea of the common good -just me me me
Not that religion guarantees any of this is abated - but we have lost all sense of what the founders called Providence

History goes through cycles. There will probably be more "great awakenings" in the future.

My two cents: the important thing is that people comport themselves consistent with the moral philosophies of Jesus, Siddhartha Gautama, Confucius, Zoroaster, Muhammad, et al.

Not that they go to church.

The non-canonical Gospel of Thomas may have the right approach: salvation comes through Jesus' teachings, not his resurrection.

[Jack]

History goes through cycles. There will probably be more "great awakenings" in the future.

My two cents: the important thing is that people comport themselves consistent with the moral philosophies of Jesus, Siddhartha Gautama, Confucius, Zoroaster, Muhammad, et al.

Not that they go to church.

The non-canonical Gospel of Thomas may have the right approach: salvation comes through Jesus' teachings, not his resurrection.

Any correlation between the Jesus Freaks and their Spiritual Leader Trump ... and what America has become today?

[Nordberg]

Churches have created a lot of this. Their political stances automatically piss off half the parishioners. Many leaders with the gospel of profit for them, are driving logical people away. Churches are the bastions of hypocrisy. The Catholic church has a big hand in people questioning their faith. They did the wrong thing with the alter boys. They acted like a corporation rather than a religion.
If churches want to be political, they must pay taxes.

[Cypress]

So ... what was the beef with Copernicus and Galileo?

Persecution of Galileo was caught up in the politics of the counter reformation, and that combined with his belligerent and repellant personality, is what got him in trouble.

The church was open to evaluating his hypothesis, and accepting it if it was convincing. The papacy had their own scientists (the Jesuits) look at Galileo's work, but they decided it simply was not compelling enough scientifically to accept at that time.

Galileo simply did not have the mathematics and mechanics to support his hypothesis.

What Galileo had was a hypothesis. Not a comprehensive theory.

We had to wait for Newton's mechanics and math to convince ourselves that the Galilean-Keplarian view of the solar system was the correct one.

[dukkha]

History goes through cycles. There will probably be more "great awakenings" in the future.

My two cents: the important thing is that people comport themselves consistent with the moral philosophies of Jesus, Siddhartha Gautama, Confucius, Zoroaster, Muhammad, et al.

Not that they go to church.

The non-canonical Gospel of Thomas may have the right approach: salvation comes through Jesus' teachings, not his resurrection.

in theory you are correct, what i am NOT SEEING is any attempts at moral philosophies
by the masses.
As far as Salvation the resurrection is inseparable from such.
The resurrection was not just for Jesus, but to show a life ever after was possible thru Faith in Christ

[Jack]

Persecution of Galileo was caught up in the politics of the counter reformation, and that combined with his belligerent and repellant personality, is what got him in trouble.

The church was open to evaluating his hypothesis, and accepting it if it was convincing. The papacy had their own scientists (the Jesuits) look at Galileo's work, but they decided it simply was not compelling enough scientifically to accept at that time.

Galileo simply did not have the mathematics and mechanics to support his hypothesis.

What Galileo had was a hypothesis. Not a comprehensive theory.

We had to wait for Newton's mechanics and math to convince ourselves that the Galilean-Keplarian view of the solar system was the correct one.

"In 1633, the Inquisition of the Roman Catholic Church forced Galileo Galilei, one of the founders of modern science, to recant his theory that the Earth moves around the Sun. Under threat of torture, Galileo – seen facing his inquisitors – recanted. But as he left the courtroom, he is said to have muttered, ‘all the same, it moves’. "
https://www.newscientist.com/article...leo-was-right/

"Vatican admits Galileo was right"

Waiting 350 years to admit they were wrong doesn't really strike me as "Biblical literalism is not a tenet of Roman Catholicism". I think you have no idea what you are talking about.

[blackascoal]

The longer version of her article on her blog is notable for these observations:

The precipitous belief in God is limited to the demographic of people who have an unshakable belief in God and zero doubts God exists. That itself probably explains a decline in church attendance.

The demographic that is increasing are the people who believe in the possibility/probability of God, but have doubts about it.

The author draws a bimodal distinction between a group of people who think the bible is literally true, and those who think it is fables. There is no strict bimodal distribution in the population. The author's approach is biased in assuming that biblical literalism and inerrancy is representative of Christianity. Biblical literalism is a tenet of the Protestant tradition. Biblical literalism is not a tenet of Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy.

Look no further than the ACTIONS of evangelicals to understand why many are retreating from religion.

[BidenPresident]

Persecution of Galileo was caught up in the politics of the counter reformation, and that combined with his belligerent and repellant personality, is what got him in trouble.

The church was open to evaluating his hypothesis, and accepting it if it was convincing. The papacy had their own scientists (the Jesuits) look at Galileo's work, but they decided it simply was not compelling enough scientifically to accept at that time.

Galileo simply did not have the mathematics and mechanics to support his hypothesis.

What Galileo had was a hypothesis. Not a comprehensive theory.

We had to wait for Newton's mechanics and math to convince ourselves that the Galilean-Keplarian view of the solar system was the correct one.

Sounds like you wish Galileo was put to death by the Church.

[BidenPresident]

Churches have created a lot of this. Their political stances automatically piss off half the parishioners. Many leaders with the gospel of profit for them, are driving logical people away. Churches are the bastions of hypocrisy. The Catholic church has a big hand in people questioning their faith. They did the wrong thing with the alter boys. They acted like a corporation rather than a religion.
If churches want to be political, they must pay taxes.

Churches have to be forced to pay property tax. Federal law preventing them from being assessed property tax violates the Constitution.

[Jack]

Churches have to be forced to pay property tax. Federal law preventing them from being assessed property tax violates the Constitution.

I agree with this.

[BidenPresident]

I agree with this.

The federal government should not be promoting religion.

[Cypress]

Sounds like you wish Galileo was put to death by the Church.

You are a terrible mind reader. I only try to remain true to the historical record.

Galileo was ahead of his time, and had a great hypothesis for cosmic motion.

It is easy with 500 years of hindsight to just assume everyone should have immediately just seen how correct Galileo's hypothesis was.

The papacy's own scientists were arguably correct to conclude that Galileo had an intriguing hypothesis, but it was not supported by a mechanistic and mathematical explanation. Newton was the one who finally made a convincing argument for cosmic motion supported by mathematical and mechanistic explanation.

The geocentric view of the universe favored by the Church was not based on scripture - it was based on Aristotle. Aristotle's authority carried great weight with the Catholic Church, and for the church to overturn Aristotelian mechanics in favor of Galileo was going to take more than a hypothesis. It was going to take a comprehensive and mechanistically convincing theory.

It took 80 years for Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection to be widely accepted in the scientific community, and that only came as a result of work in genetics by Mendel and others.

We are all prone to hindsight and Monday morning quarterbacking.

[BidenPresident]

You are a terrible mind reader. I only try to remain true to the historical record.

Galileo was ahead of his time, and had a great hypothesis for cosmic motion.

It is easy with 500 years of hindsight to just assume everyone should have just seen how correct Galileo's hypothesis was.

The papacy's own scientists were arguably correct to conclude that Galileo had an interesting hypothesis, but it was not supported by a mechanistic and mathematical explanation. Newton was the one who made a convincing argument for cosmic motion supported by mathematical and mechanistic explanation.

The geocentric view of the universe favored by the Church was not based on scripture - it was based on Aristotle. Aristotle's authority carried great weight with the Catholic Church, and for the church to overturn Aristotelian mechanics in favor of Galileo was going to take more than a hypothesis.

It took 80 years for Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection to be widely accepted in the scientific community, and that only came as a result of work in genetics by Mendel and others.

You know nothing about Galileo. As usual, you love hearing your own voice.

[danielpalos]

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...from-religion/

It must require morals to advance Religion.

[Jack]

You are a terrible mind reader. I only try to remain true to the historical record.

Galileo was ahead of his time, and had a great hypothesis for cosmic motion.

It is easy with 500 years of hindsight to just assume everyone should have just seen how correct Galileo's hypothesis was.

The papacy's own scientists were arguably correct to conclude that Galileo had an intriguing hypothesis, but it was not supported by a mechanistic and mathematical explanation. Newton was the one who made a convincing argument for cosmic motion supported by mathematical and mechanistic explanation.

The geocentric view of the universe favored by the Church was not based on scripture - it was based on Aristotle. Aristotle's authority carried great weight with the Catholic Church, and for the church to overturn Aristotelian mechanics in favor of Galileo was going to take more than a hypothesis. It was going to take a comprehensive and mechanistically convincing theory.

It took 80 years for Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection to be widely accepted in the scientific community, and that only came as a result of work in genetics by Mendel and others.

"The geocentric view of the universe favored by the Church was not based on scripture - it was based on Aristotle. Aristotle's authority carried great weight with the Catholic Church, and for the church to overturn Aristotelian mechanics in favor of Galileo was going to take more than a hypothesis."

hahahaha ... why should the Church have ANY opinions on SCIENCE. Their expertise is on Magic and Mysticism.