Massive voter fraud - the logic question

[BartenderElite]

Unicorns and rainbows.

The conspiracy theories and allegations of fraud are not grounded in any sense of fact, or reality. There is an inevitable impossibility to everything that is being put out there.

America in 2020. We should all be concerned. The internet is amazing, but also a wellspring of fabrication and misinformation.

[T. A. Gardner]

So,
A) they can program it to only flip Trump votes, and only SOME of the Trump votes?

Yes. They can even program it to vary the level of flipping so it increases in districts that vote Trump heavy while decreases it in ones that don't to make the result look more natural.

B) If it's only that, the dozen or so other methods of fraud that are being presented by Trump and his team are lies?

There are other methods beyond what I outlined. My intent was to show that voter fraud is not just possible, but likely, and that with the systems we now are using it is increasingly likely to occur. I also showed it doesn't take a large number of people to do massive fraud anymore. Early voting, mail-in ballots, ballot harvesting, and electronic voting are all ripe for massive fraud by a small group on a large scale.

[BartenderElite]

Yes. They can even program it to vary the level of flipping so it increases in districts that vote Trump heavy while decreases it in ones that don't to make the result look more natural.



There are other methods beyond what I outlined. My intent was to show that voter fraud is not just possible, but likely, and that with the systems we now are using it is increasingly likely to occur. I also showed it doesn't take a large number of people to do massive fraud anymore. Early voting, mail-in ballots, ballot harvesting, and electronic voting are all ripe for massive fraud by a small group on a large scale.

The above is contradictory. You're talking about Dems being prepared in dozens if not hundreds of districts.

And the Trump team alleges that most of the fraud took place in blue areas - not districts where the vote is "Trump heavy."

As I just said - there is an inevitable impossibility to all of these theories the more you extrapolate.

[T. A. Gardner]

Oh, one of the things that caught my attention is that Biden won rather handily while the Democrats down ticket got creamed. That doesn't really make a lot of sense. One possibility is that the fraud was focused on just winning for Biden and the down ticket races were ignored. This might have been done to simplify the acts of fraud as it means everything is focused on one race making everything from electronic voting hack programs to mail-in ballot fraud much easier to do.

[BartenderElite]

Oh, one of the things that caught my attention is that Biden won rather handily while the Democrats down ticket got creamed. That doesn't really make a lot of sense. One possibility is that the fraud was focused on just winning for Biden and the down ticket races were ignored. This might have been done to simplify the acts of fraud as it means everything is focused on one race making everything from electronic voting hack programs to mail-in ballot fraud much easier to do.

How does it not make sense?

Do you think everyone is as partisan as this board, and vote straight party line?

[Stretch]

So,
A) they can program it to only flip Trump votes, and only SOME of the Trump votes?
B) If it's only that, the dozen or so other methods of fraud that are being presented by Trump and his team are lies?

Good thing that this only occurred in the blue areas where Dems were busy with their lawyers for 8 months changing state voting rules, sending out millions
of unsolicited ballots, trucking in fake Biden-only vote ballots after seeing how many votes they needed, forbidding "meaningful observation" by both
parties of counting, multiple ballots from the dead and ballots in multiple states filled in with the exact same 1st name, middle initial, last name and dob.
Coincidence with a purpose.

[Stretch]

Gregory Stenstrom: (52:54)
It’s a tough group to follow. My name is Gregory Stenstrom. I’m from Delaware County. I’m a father, a family man. I was a former commanding officer, an executive officer in the Navy. I’m a veteran of foreign wars. I’m a CEO of my own private company. I’m a data scientist. I’m a forensic computer scientist. I’m an expert in security and fraud. Leah had recruited me for this election, and I was glad. I thank you for that.

Leah Hoops: (53:24)
Thank you.

Gregory Stenstrom: (53:25)
So, for the first part of the day, I was a poll watcher in the city of Chester. And I was with just another former US Marine officer. And the two of us were the only GOP poll watchers in the city of Chester, which is about 40,000 people. Because of the consolidation for COVID, there were seven polls that we were able to make it to in 22 precincts. What we saw out there was pretty orderly and exciting. People were excited to vote. One of the things we saw out in the field was that quite a few people had done mail-in ballots. So, they came in, and they hadn’t been updated in the Delaware County database yet. So, they would come in and say, “The database is not showing me on the database. I’d like to vote.”

Gregory Stenstrom: (54:16)
One of the processes was to give them a provisional ballot, and then, they would vote provisionally. And then, later on, their vote would be sorted out. That didn’t happen. I observed, and the gentleman that was with me, observed seven different polls where the people were given a regular ballot. So, they cast a vote and put it in. We let it happen a few times. We didn’t jump all over them. It happened a couple of times. We went up. In all cases, the election judges were very forthcoming, very polite. They apologized, and they said they couldn’t do it. But that somewhat spurred me to go down to the counting center, which Leah described. It’s on the Seaport Ave. It’s a remote building, not much around it. And I wanted to take a look. All day long, I had been told that there were 10 to 20 GOP poll watchers down there, and that everything was well in hand. And out of curiosity, I decided to go down.

Gregory Stenstrom: (55:17)
I arrived at 6:00 with four other gentlemen, again, foreign military and some good citizens from Delaware County. And we weren’t allowed to get in until 11: 00 at night, and we had to get some legal help to get us in. So, it took us five hours to get upstairs. After that, what I saw is, I really think the crux of this in Delaware County is… As an expert in this, I think it’s impossible to verify the validity of about 100,000 to 120,000 votes. Now, Delaware County has got 425,000 registered voters. Approximately 300,000 of them voted. I don’t know what the exact number ended up. Mayor Giuliani nailed that number. But of that number, over 100,000 are in question in my mind. What I saw, as a forensics expert, was an election process that was forensically destructive in the manner it was conducted with the envelopes being separated from the ballots and going to the other side of the room. And the problem with that from being forensically destructive is that when you go to do a recount, okay, the machines did a pretty good job of recounting.

Gregory Stenstrom: (56:37)
So, if I have 120,000 ballots, mail-in ballots at one side of the room and envelopes at the other side of the room is still going to come out 100, 2,000 votes for Vie President Biden and 18,000 votes for President Trump. I don’t care how many times you recount those votes. The ballot’s going to come out the same every time. So, the notion of a recount in a forensically destructive process is, it doesn’t work very well. What we saw there, what I saw there was a chain of custody. In all cases, it was broken. It was broken for the mail-in ballots, the drop box ballots, the election day USBV card flash drives. In all cases, the chain of custody and the procedures that were defined by the Delaware County Board of Elections and election process review were all… They didn’t follow one.

Gregory Stenstrom: (57:28)
I couldn’t even redline this multi-page document because the entire document would be they didn’t follow any of the procedures. So, I personally observed USBV cards being uploaded to the voting machines by the voting machine warehouse supervisor on multiple occasions. I saw this personally. I brought it to the attention of the deputy sheriff, who was there, stationed, who was a senior law enforcement officer. And I brought it to the attention of the clerk of elections. I brought it to their attention. I objected. And I said, “This person is not being observed. He’s not part of the process that I can see.” And he’s walking in with baggies, which we have pictures of, and it was submitted in our affidavits. And he was sticking these USBs into the machines. So, I personally witnessed, that happened 24 times, over 24 times. We have multiple other witnesses that saw it, including Democrat poll watchers.

Gregory Stenstrom: (58:31)
And I was told the next day by the solicitors… Well, actually, not the solicitor, but the attorney that we had secured, that they said, “Every election, they leave a couple of USBs in the voting machines, and they’re brought back. And generally, the warehouse manager comes over and puts them in.” So, in talking to the US Attorney General McSwain and other law enforcement officers, I found out that was not the case, that generally, more than two is unusual. So, they denied they did it. But as of today, 47 USBV cards are missing, and they’re nowhere to be found. So, I was told personally that these 24 to 30 cards that were uploaded weren’t there. Those cards, I demanded that they… They didn’t update the vote lifetime. They only updated it about once every two or three hours.

Gregory Stenstrom: (59:33)
I demanded they updated the vote so I could see what the result was, and it was 50,000 votes. And I think as a computer scientist, an American, and a Patriot, it doesn’t matter who those 50,000 votes were. I’ll tell you they were for Vice President Biden. But what was shocking to me, as an American, as someone who has gone to sea, gone to war that that could even happen. So, several other things that came up was on Thursday, it took us three days for them to obey the court order that I secured with Leah’s help and the help of the Thomas More Society, who we thank. Incredibly good patriots. They got us in there. They got the order for us to get in and look at the back offices, which were locked, for five minutes every two hours. I went in. I was the first one allowed to go in at 1:30 on Thursday, and then, again at 3:30 for five minutes.

Gregory Stenstrom: (01:00:42)
The County solicitor had a stopwatch. On the first time, I was not allowed to touch anything. The second time, I did. What I observed in the locked room in the back office was 70,000 unopened mail-in ballots. They were in boxes of 500 stacked in neatly. The gentlemen that came in with me was a Democrat poll watcher, is a forensic pathologist, a very detailed, very dedicated man. And he took meticulous notes as well. And I verified with him, “Are you seeing what I’m seeing?” We both agreed, as GOP poll watchers and a Democrat poll watcher, that we had a witnessed 60 to 70,000. We had a little bit of a disagreement there. The problem with that was by that time, the mail-in ballots had already been counted.

Gregory Stenstrom: (01:01:37)
So, 120,000 mail-in ballots had already been counted, posted, and done. My question is, where did the 70,000 ballots go? And nobody knows. We have a picture in here of a large number of boxes that I took that were filled with what appeared to be ballots sitting by the BlueCrest machine. They were there for about three hours, and then, they disappeared. I thought it notable when I watched it, the first when taking the ballots up and down. I said, “I am an expert in fraud.” I saw the ballots going up multiple elevators and racks. And I think a lot of well-meaning people and a lot of honest people were there doing that. They were trying to participate in the process. And I would say that 99% of the people there, the way the process was designed, I believe that people thought it was a non-fraudulent process.

Gregory Stenstrom: (01:02:34)
I heard that said many times. I said, “There’s no fraud going on here.” I said, “Well, I’m not…” I didn’t even bring that up. But I think people saw what they wanted to see, and they saw what was intended for them to see. I called it, at one point, Kabuki theater. I said, “It was all designed for us to see it. It was entertaining. There were cameras on it.” When we finally got into the back room where the votes were being ingested, as a data scientist, I want to see where the data’s coming in. And I wanted to know the universe of the votes. Well, the universe of the votes was only supposed to be 120,000 mail-in ballots. We were told there were 6,000 ballots remaining. So, I said, “Okay, we have a universe of 126,000 votes.” And then, when I get back there, the universe wasn’t 126,000 votes. The universe was 200,000 votes. So, that’s a problem.

Gregory Stenstrom: (01:03:28)
A couple of other things is, the BlueCrest sorter machine was only manned by one person. People ask me all the time, “How do people commit crimes?” I know there’s a lot of theories here. And I always look for the simplest thing. People are sticking USB sticks in, putting ballots in, very simple thing. Only takes a couple of people. It doesn’t take a big conspiracy. I think people look at things, and they use inflammatory words, like fraud and so forth. As a forensic computer scientist, my interest is in the data. Where did it go? Where…

Gregory Stenstrom: (01:04:03)
My interest is in the data. Where did it go? Where did the spoilers go? How did the data come in and go out of the system? So I think as a scientist we need to look at that and we need to audit that. What was really upsetting to me, most upsetting, was I had spoke to multiple law enforcement agencies and literally begged multiple law enforcement agencies, I said, “Go in.” And I said in order to prove that nothing’s happening and either exonerate yourselves from the process or refute what I’m saying, please, it’s a very simple process, just go get the forensic evidence from the computers. It’s a simple process, you turn the computer off, it’s nondestructive, takes moments, maybe half an hour, 20 minutes, to do it properly and collect the evidence. You open the computer up, you take a device called a bit blocker, you put it in the hard drive, it’s done under the observation of law enforcement officers, you take a forensic image of the drive, put it all back together, it wouldn’t have taken more than an hour to image all five machines. That was never done, despite my objections and that was three weeks ago.

Gregory Stenstrom: (01:05:15)
Lastly, when they said, “Well we’ve got all the forensic records and so forth,” we just learned two days ago that virtual all chain of custody logs, records, yellow sheets, everything, was gone. All forensic evidence, all custody sheets in [inaudible 01:05:39] County are gone. They had a signing party where they sat down and poll workers were invited back to recreate those logs and our understanding is as of today, was that they were unsuccessful in getting them all. So we have a situation in where we have 100,000 to 120,000 ballots, both mail in and USB, that are in question. Now there’s no cure for this, there’s no remedy for this. As a home charter we could have a re-election in Delaware County for our own representatives within our own town. But there is no cure for that for the president of the United States. And I don’t believe, as a citizen and an observer to this, that anybody could certify that vote in any good conscience.

Gregory Stenstrom: (01:06:33)
And if the democrats, that have a part of this process, had done things, followed their own procedures, which they created almost unilaterally, we would be in a situation where they could exonerate themselves and they could say, “Mr. [inaudible 01:06:49], you’ve been misinformed. We have evidence here that refutes what you say.” But that’s not the case. They can’t do that. So I say if you can’t certify that vote, and you can’t certify 100,000 votes out of 300,000, then you can’t certify Delaware County. And I’m done and thank you for your time and patience.
https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts...-2020-election

[BartenderElite]

Good thing that this only occurred in the blue areas where Dems were busy with their lawyers for 8 months changing state voting rules, sending out millions
of unsolicited ballots, trucking in fake Biden-only vote ballots after seeing how many votes they needed, forbidding "meaningful observation" by both
parties of counting, multiple ballots from the dead and ballots in multiple states filled in with the exact same 1st name, middle initial, last name and dob.
Coincidence with a purpose.

T.A. just said that part of it would have to involve districts where the vote was Trump heavy.

So, what's your guess for the OP? What you just described is a massive, coordinated national effort. How many would need to be involved? Ballpark is fine.

[Stone]

T.A. just said that part of it would have to involve districts where the vote was Trump heavy.

So, what's your guess for the OP? What you just described is a massive, coordinated national effort. How many would need to be involved? Ballpark is fine.

Half the country is R, the other half D,...doesnt need to be deep involvement in most cases,....more the wink and a nod variety.

[BartenderElite]

Half the country is R, the other half D,...doesnt need to be deep involvement in most cases,....more the wink and a nod variety.

It's felony. Anyone involved is in deep.

[T. A. Gardner]

The above is contradictory. You're talking about Dems being prepared in dozens if not hundreds of districts.

And the Trump team alleges that most of the fraud took place in blue areas - not districts where the vote is "Trump heavy."

As I just said - there is an inevitable impossibility to all of these theories the more you extrapolate.

It isn't contradictory at all. You aren't paying attention. Scenario:

You have just three (3) people who need to hack one (1) machine in a voting district to alter the outcome of the entire district. Their hack will automatically spread to every other machine in that district and when voting ends, erase itself from the machines. This is the Princeton scenario in their video. Each person is practiced at what they need to do.
There are no voter ID requirements in their state. They have let's say 18 districts they targeted as the ones most likely to vote for the other party / person, the one they don't want elected. Voting stations are going to be open for 16 hours on voting day.
They prepare ahead of time by getting 18 names of voters that are unlikely to vote from the voting roles. This is simple to do in most states and it is publicly available. Each has six names and six districts they have to hit. They carefully dress to look inconspicuous and have also picked voting stations within that district unlikely to experience lines or long delays in voting.
This means they have to hit 6 districts over a 16 hour period. That's one every two-and-a-half hours. This gives them plenty of time to hit one, drive to the next, and do it again. Doesn't matter when they inject the virus / hack, it automatically will correct the count back and they know that the overall tally will match when the ticket for the total vote is run at the end of voting.

One day, three people, and they change the tally in 18 districts with say a total of 90,000 voters (5,000 per district). The hack is gone when voting ends. The vote on the machine and the paper ticket showing it matches. Doesn't matter that if you were somehow to get the 90,000 individual tickets back that they don't match, not even close. That isn't going to happen and they know it.

Oh, none of the above required me to listen to anything the Trump bunch are claiming. None of it required me to go looking for conspiracy theories. All I had to do was watch videos on how electronic voting machines could be hacked on the fly and the rest was simple to extrapolate as a plan that took just three (3) people to effectively throw a state's election.

Did it happen? No idea. Could it happen? Yes. Could it be undetectable? Possibly, even likely. This is because the security on voting as it stands is like a colander with fist sized holes in it. There are so many weak and missing security measures in place that anyone can easily manipulate the system and not be caught.

[Celticguy]

I've asked a few times, but thought it might be fun to make it a thread. The kind of fraud that Trump and his team (and followers) are alleging would have to include:

- People at the top - the money men & organizers
- Multiple operatives in each suspected precinct: people to "re-program" the voting software and machines, and to manage the alleged cessation of counting and influx of fake ballots
- Many more vote counters than that in each precinct; they would have to be informed of what was going on
- Ballot preparers - we're talking about over a million ballots needed
- Truck drivers
- Research teams to identify deceased voters whose names could be utilized
- various complicit influencers in the media

We're talking about at least 6 states, dozens of counties, and hundreds of precincts. An absolutely massive scale.

So, just ballpark - how many people do you think would need to be either involved or have knowledge of this kind of plot?

The beauty of the Dominion systems are that they are centralized. You will also note that in all the states being looked at its central processing centers, not precincts, where shennanigans took place.

May want to rethink your premise.

[BartenderElite]

The beauty of the Dominion systems are that they are centralized. You will also note that in all the states being looked at its central processing centers, not precincts, where shennanigans took place.

May want to rethink your premise.

Should I rethink it? Or should the Trump legal team & Trump himself?

Because they're well beyond just the software. The allegations are a variety of voter fraud strategies - dead voters, fake ballots, ballot dumps, burning/discarding Trump votes, et al.

[T. A. Gardner]

Hell, if you really wanted to hack voting machines why not go to a computer conference and learn exactly how!

[Diesel]

I've asked a few times, but thought it might be fun to make it a thread. The kind of fraud that Trump and his team (and followers) are alleging would have to include:

- People at the top - the money men & organizers
- Multiple operatives in each suspected precinct: people to "re-program" the voting software and machines, and to manage the alleged cessation of counting and influx of fake ballots
- Many more vote counters than that in each precinct; they would have to be informed of what was going on
- Ballot preparers - we're talking about over a million ballots needed
- Truck drivers
- Research teams to identify deceased voters whose names could be utilized
- various complicit influencers in the media

We're talking about at least 6 states, dozens of counties, and hundreds of precincts. An absolutely massive scale.

So, just ballpark - how many people do you think would need to be either involved or have knowledge of this kind of plot?

I mean, you're right, but why even give it oxygen? There was no fraud. Trump is done. His supporters are garbage. We don't need to play their games with them. Let's push them back into their racist, lying closets and move on with adult life.