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Thread: Pennsylvania accepted mail in ballots for 69 hours later than what is allowed by law

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    Rightys want Trump/Dejoys plan to slow down mail-in voting to come in too late to be counted, to work. Who slows down mail delivery? Only Trump.Trump was trying to disenfranchise potential Biden voters so he could win. There is no bottom for Trump.
    There is no doubt in my mind that the fuck-up with the USPS was deliberate. We get mail nearly every single day, even if it's just junk. About the only stuff we were getting before the election was vote-for-me stuff, and a few other pieces. Many days we got nothing at all. Greeting cards (first class mail) I sent to my hospice ppl, who are all local, sometimes took a WEEK to arrive. But a week after the election? The box is stuffed nearly every day.

    What a shame his nasty little ploy failed. Not!
    “Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.” -- Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by domer76 View Post
    Why? Because your boy got his ass kicked?
    No, and as an aside "(my) boy" isn't such so you are off base there. I object because mail-in balloting has numerous issues related to a variety of things all of which are highly problematic.

    We could start with elections are supposed to be held on the first Tuesday of November, not over several weeks or even months using mail-in ballots. Early voting not only violates federal and many state laws doing this, but it ruins the intent of a particular date on which voting occurs.

    Next, going off that is the potential for fraud from ballot harvesting, improperly mailed to or from ballots, inability to fix a mis-marked ballot, etc. All of this makes mail-in voting highly suspect.

    As it stands, there is virtually no control on who marks a ballot and little or no control on ensuring that the person voting is eligible or actually the person claimed. The signature on the envelope is nearly worthless as a control as the ways it is matched are all but a joke.

    Since there is no chain of custody whatsoever on mail-in ballots that too becomes not just problematic, but highly suspect. In most, if not all, states ballots are separated from the envelope once arriving to be counted. Once that happens all chain of custody ends.

    I'd add to all that that electronic voting is equally bad. There is too much solid evidence that these machines can easily be tampered with to ignore. When a computer expert can show how someone with even limited instruction can easily reprogram such a machine, even while in use in an election, and do so in a way that the hack programming will spread to other machines while being undetectable, there is a major problem.

    We need elections everyone can have full faith in. That means:

    In-person voting on paper ballots with a chain of custody trail involved.
    Universal requirements for voter ID and strict requirements for voter registration.
    The use of mail-in balloting being limited to the greatest extent possible.
    No "early voting" or other extended voting nonsense. The election is held on one or several days at one time and that's when you vote, PERIOD!
    Counting can be done electronically but by machines designed specifically to be difficult or impossible to alter in function. A full paper trail is maintained just in case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    While I don't have a problem accepting ballots properly postmarked before the election that arrive late, I do think it makes a very strong argument against future use of mail-in balloting in elections on a widespread or universal level. If anything, this election is one more proof we should do away in large part or entirely, mail-in balloting and return to in-person voting wherever possible.
    The only reason you want to do that is, of course, is because you know that most of the mail-in ballots came from (D)s. And anything that makes voting easier -- especially for Democrats -- makes it harder for your party to win. Hence #LOSER45's desperate attempts to fuck up the postal service, blackmail Ukraine into finding dirt on Biden, spread scurrilous b.s. about his son, and cast shade on the integrity of the election.
    “Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.” -- Gandhi

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    Pennsylvania accepted mail in ballots for 69 hours later than what is allowed by law
    Were they the three for Trump ?
    " First they came for the journalists...
    We don't know what happened after that . "

    Maria Ressa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    The only reason you want to do that is, of course, is because you know that most of the mail-in ballots came from (D)s. And anything that makes voting easier -- especially for Democrats -- makes it harder for your party to win. Hence #LOSER45's desperate attempts to fuck up the postal service, blackmail Ukraine into finding dirt on Biden, spread scurrilous b.s. about his son, and cast shade on the integrity of the election.
    I want to do this because I have little faith in an election process that takes part over several months, allows anyone to collect ballots (aka ballot harvesting), has obvious and little security over the entire process, and is ripe for massive fraud. It isn't about Trump or about Democrats or Republicans. It's about a badly and deeply flawed process. And, yes, I do blame Democrats far more for it being in place than Repubicans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    I want to do this because I have little faith in an election process that takes part over several months, allows anyone to collect ballots (aka ballot harvesting), has obvious and little security over the entire process, and is ripe for massive fraud. It isn't about Trump or about Democrats or Republicans. It's about a badly and deeply flawed process. And, yes, I do blame Democrats far more for it being in place than Repubicans.
    Serious question: to rig a national election...how many people (roughly) would need to be involved?

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    I want to do this because I have little faith in an election process that takes part over several months, allows anyone to collect ballots (aka ballot harvesting), has obvious and little security over the entire process, and is ripe for massive fraud. It isn't about Trump or about Democrats or Republicans. It's about a badly and deeply flawed process. And, yes, I do blame Democrats far more for it being in place than Repubicans.
    Except that none of that is true. We have used mail-in voting for decades. Are you insinuating that the ex-pats and overseas military personnel who vote are somehow cheating? Why not? Oh, that's right -- because they tend to vote mostly (R) so we won't question *those* ballots.

    You have swallowed the Koolaid. Maybe start reading some unbiased sources instead of only those who confirm your bias. That's what intelligent ppl do.
    “Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.” -- Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    Some did, but a content person doesn't get triggered over EVERY single negative comment. And Trump even gets mad over things that aren't meant to slight him.
    I find it hard to imagine something that wasn't meant to slight him.....
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by BartenderElite View Post
    Serious question: to rig a national election...how many people (roughly) would need to be involved?
    I don't think it could be coordinated that closely without it leaking out. What I see is widespread fraud at the state and county level being possible. A good example of likely fraud is Orange County in 2018. Orange County CA is reliably Republican. It's a deep red Republican stronghold in a blue state, has been for decades.
    California changed the state laws before that election so that mail-in balloting and ballot harvesting were now widely allowed and legal. Orange County suddenly went hard blue (eg., voted for Democrats) for the first time in decades. More suspiciously, in every tight race on election day, the Republican candidate there won handily. Vote counting of mail-in ballots after election day went on for a week or more and in every case, the overwhelming majority of those ballots were for the Democrat who suddenly had more votes than the Republican. Sound familiar? This was 2018...

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...-for-governor/
    https://thefederalist.com/2018/12/14...teal-election/



    The only two things that changed between 2016 and 2018 was that California now was using mail-in ballots on a widespread basis and for the first time was allowing ballot harvesting. That's it. In Orange County, the Democrats had a serious deficit of registered voters, yet from 2016 where the Republicans pretty much swept the county, it shifted totally blue in one election cycle with the Democrats having less registered voters than Republicans...

    More significantly those usually Republican seats in Orange County reverted to Republican for the most part in 2020. That is, the election in 2018 was a big anomaly in voter characteristics.

    To do this you'd need just a few hundred operatives at most, possibly even less than 100. Because of early voting and mail-in ballots, the operatives now have something like two months to ballot harvest, inject fraudulent ballots, and do all of it out-of-sight of any election officials. Before, the election was held over a day. That restricted the time you could do fraudulent things to a minimum. Here, they had months to work. Of those, it really would require only a dozen or so to be fully in on the fraud. That is, the harvesters could think they're doing a legitimate job collecting and turning in ballots to a central party location where they'll be turned over in mass to the election officials. Only those in on the fraud at that point know the ballots received are being scrutinized or altered.

    Better for the people wanting to throw the election, they can do their dirty work completely risk free. Ballot harvesting is legal so they can confidently go about collecting up ballots without fear of legal consequences. The harvesters they hire to do the legwork don't need to be part of the fraud. Once they have those ballots, they have weeks to alter them, dispose of those that voted "wrong" or even fill them out if the voter didn't. There are signature generators available now that can easily put those on the envelope. An ink jet printer is virtually indistinguishable from a ink gel pen in output. Since the standard for accepting a signature is low, and the signatures could even be available to the fraudsters via say a party representative who has access to voter registration rolls, these would be no obstacle to mass fraud.

    Now, if you had such operations in a number of states, you could generate thousands, if not tens of thousands, of fraudulent ballots the bulk of which would be difficult to impossible to tell from valid ones.

    All you need to complete your scam is a vote outcome that is reasonably close, say less than a few thousand votes separating the candidates. If one or the other got say tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands more votes the possibility of a fraudulent outcome diminishes significantly. It wouldn't mean that fraud wasn't present, just that what fraud was is irrelevant to the outcome.

    In the 2020 election what caught my attention was that Biden was a standout winner in an election where the Democrats on all their down-ticket races did crappy. That doesn't make a whole lot of common sense sense. One would expect that a voter voting primarily Republican down ticket would likely also vote Republican for President. Yes, maybe it was just Trump, but that's tougher to swallow than that there was something not quite right going on with the election outcomes.

    None of this is hard proof, but it certainly should give anyone who is reasonable and rational pause to consider the possibility.
    Last edited by T. A. Gardner; 11-26-2020 at 04:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BartenderElite View Post
    FYI: voters could also pick up mail-in ballots at the post office & in gov't offices....
    Absolutely. They could vote TWICE (3,4,5,6 times, whatever) because they did not do any matching of names, id's, addresses with state voter rolls.
    Abortion rights dogma can obscure human reason & harden the human heart so much that the same person who feels
    empathy for animal suffering can lack compassion for unborn children who experience lethal violence and excruciating
    pain in abortion.

    Unborn animals are protected in their nesting places, humans are not. To abort something is to end something
    which has begun. To abort life is to end it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    No, and as an aside "(my) boy" isn't such so you are off base there. I object because mail-in balloting has numerous issues related to a variety of things all of which are highly problematic.

    We could start with elections are supposed to be held on the first Tuesday of November, not over several weeks or even months using mail-in ballots. Early voting not only violates federal and many state laws doing this, but it ruins the intent of a particular date on which voting occurs.

    Next, going off that is the potential for fraud from ballot harvesting, improperly mailed to or from ballots, inability to fix a mis-marked ballot, etc. All of this makes mail-in voting highly suspect.

    As it stands, there is virtually no control on who marks a ballot and little or no control on ensuring that the person voting is eligible or actually the person claimed. The signature on the envelope is nearly worthless as a control as the ways it is matched are all but a joke.

    Since there is no chain of custody whatsoever on mail-in ballots that too becomes not just problematic, but highly suspect. In most, if not all, states ballots are separated from the envelope once arriving to be counted. Once that happens all chain of custody ends.

    I'd add to all that that electronic voting is equally bad. There is too much solid evidence that these machines can easily be tampered with to ignore. When a computer expert can show how someone with even limited instruction can easily reprogram such a machine, even while in use in an election, and do so in a way that the hack programming will spread to other machines while being undetectable, there is a major problem.

    We need elections everyone can have full faith in. That means:

    In-person voting on paper ballots with a chain of custody trail involved.
    Universal requirements for voter ID and strict requirements for voter registration.
    The use of mail-in balloting being limited to the greatest extent possible.
    No "early voting" or other extended voting nonsense. The election is held on one or several days at one time and that's when you vote, PERIOD!
    Counting can be done electronically but by machines designed specifically to be difficult or impossible to alter in function. A full paper trail is maintained just in case.
    Yep, just as I thought. Because your boy got his ass kicked.

    This was a secure election, pal, and no federal laws were broken. Nobody is challenging the legality of early voting, voting by mail, absentee ballots or anything of the sort. Your lame argument rings hollow.

    Fraud has not been shown, Jethro. Another bogus argument.

    Electronic tampering is also a bogus claim.

    When elections are close enough, as in GA, a candidate can request a hand count. Guess how many elections have ever been overturned by recounts? ZERO or next to ZERO.

    Keep struggling, Jethro. It’s amusing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by domer76 View Post
    Yep, just as I thought. Because your boy got his ass kicked.

    This was a secure election, pal, and no federal laws were broken. Nobody is challenging the legality of early voting, voting by mail, absentee ballots or anything of the sort. Your lame argument rings hollow.

    Fraud has not been shown, Jethro. Another bogus argument.

    Electronic tampering is also a bogus claim.

    When elections are close enough, as in GA, a candidate can request a hand count. Guess how many elections have ever been overturned by recounts? ZERO or next to ZERO.

    Keep struggling, Jethro. It’s amusing.
    Just because you say so, and mostly do it using ad hominem, doesn't make it true. My comments had nothing to do with Trump. As I posted in other threads, I have opposed general mail-in balloting, ballot harvesting, and many other aspects of our current election system well before this election. It just reconfirmed my belief that the results are not to be fully trusted--and, I don't give a shit what official, vested interests in the election system claim. Their positions don't make them automatically reliable or believable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BartenderElite View Post
    What do you think Trump will do in January?

    Back to reality TV?
    Put Biden in jail for selling influence to China and Ukraine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BartenderElite View Post
    Serious question: to rig a national election...how many people (roughly) would need to be involved?
    One of the witnesses a very creditable former naval Commander and a computer specialist in computer fraud currently testified he saw voting computer warehouse guy inserting USB drives into about 30 voting machines. He wasn't authorized to be down loading or up loading to the machines. If he was uploading mal ware it could have stolen 10's of thousands of votes or more. Also he and a democrat poll observer both after 5 hours finally got access to a room where they had 60-70 thousand mail in votes. The thing is all of the mail in votes had been counted and accounted for already. The computer fraud specialist identified several areas where fraud could enter the system He said a small group of people could have changed the race in Pennsylvania for Biden.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExpressLane View Post
    One of the witnesses a very creditable former naval Commander and a computer specialist in computer fraud currently testified he saw voting computer warehouse guy inserting USB drives into about 30 voting machines. He wasn't authorized to be down loading or up loading to the machines. If he was uploading mal ware it could have stolen 10's of thousands of votes or more. Also he and a democrat poll observer both after 5 hours finally got access to a room where they had 60-70 thousand mail in votes. The thing is all of the mail in votes had been counted and accounted for already. The computer fraud specialist identified several areas where fraud could enter the system He said a small group of people could have changed the race in Pennsylvania for Biden.
    If if if if if. If wishes were fishes......

    Pointing out something that could happen is not evidence that it DID happen. When are you going to figure that out. Is there any evidence of fraud? Nope. None.

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