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Thread: Electric cars are great for rich virtue signallers, but a dreadful way to save the p

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    Default Electric cars are great for rich virtue signallers, but a dreadful way to save the p

    There are just so many clueless people in the US and UK, I guess you'll find out the hard way that electric cars are just another expensive white elephant.


    Electric cars are good fun for wealthy virtue signallers, but a dreadful way to save the planet
    Banning petrol and diesel vehicles would deliver only minor emissions savings at a vast cost to the taxpayer

    Electric cars are certainly fun, but almost everywhere cost more across their lifetime than their petrol counterparts. That is why subsidies are needed. And consumers are still anxious because of their short range and long recharging times. Despite the US handing out up to $10,000 (£7,600) for each electric car, for example, fewer than 0.5 per cent of its cars are battery electric. And almost all the support goes to the rich. Ninety per cent of electric car owners also have a fossil-fuel driven car they drive further. Indeed, electric vehicles are mostly a “second car” used for shorter trips and virtue signalling.

    If you subsidise electric cars enough, people will buy them. Almost 10 per cent of all Norway’s passenger cars are now electric because of generous policies that waive most costs. Over its lifetime, a £23,000 car might receive benefits worth more than £20,000. But this approach is unsustainable for most nations. Even Norway is starting to worry, losing more than a billion euros a year from exempt drivers.

    Innovation will eventually make electric cars economical even without subsidies, but concerns over range and slow recharging will remain. That is why most scientific prognoses show that electric cars will not take over the world. A new study shows that by 2030, just 13 per cent of new cars will be battery-electric. If Johnson bans new petrol cars by then, he would essentially forbid 87 per cent of consumers from buying the cars they want. It is hard to imagine that could be politically viable.

    The International Energy Agency estimates that by 2030, if all countries live up to their promises, the world will have 140 million electric cars on the road. Yet, this would not make a significant impact on emissions for two reasons. First, electric cars require large batteries, often produced in China using coal power. Just producing the battery for an electric car can emit almost as much as a quarter of the greenhouse gasses emitted from a petrol car across its entire lifetime.

    Second, the electric car is recharged on electricity that almost everywhere is significantly fossil-fuel based. Together, this means that a long-range electric car will emit more CO2 for its first 60,000km than a petrol car. This is why having a second electric car for short trips could mean higher overall emissions. Comparing electric and petrol, the International Energy Agency estimates the electric car will save six tons of CO2 over its lifetime, assuming global average electricity emissions. Even if the electric car has a short range and its battery is made in Europe mostly using renewable energy, its savings will be at most 10 tons.

    To use America as an example, if Biden restores the full electric car tax credit, he will essentially pay £5,700 to reduce emissions by at most 10 tons. Yet, he can get US power producers to cut 10 tons for just £45. Indeed, if the whole world follows through and gets to 140 million electric cars by 2030, the IEA estimates it will reduce emissions by just 190 million tonnes of CO2 – a mere 0.4 per cent of global emissions.

    We need a reality check. First, politicians should stop writing huge cheques just because they believe electric cars are a major climate solution. Second, there is a simpler solution. The hybrid car saves about the same amount of CO2 as an electric car over its lifetime. Third, climate change doesn’t care about where CO2 comes from. Personal cars are only about 7 per cent of global emissions, and electric cars will only help a little.

    Right now, electric car subsidies are something wealthy countries can afford to give elites to show virtue. But if we want to fix the climate, we need to focus on the big emitters and drive innovation to create better low-CO2 energy from fusion, fission, geothermal, wind, and solar. Innovations that will make just one of them cheaper than fossil fuels would mean not just rich Londoners changing their habits, but everyone, including China and India, switching large parts of their energy consumption toward zero emissions.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...s-save-planet/
    .
    Last edited by cancel2 2022; 11-24-2020 at 09:15 AM.

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    the International Energy Agency estimates that by 2030, if all countries live up to their promises, the world will have 140 million electric cars on the road. Yet, this would not make a significant impact on emissions for two reasons. First, electric cars require large batteries, often produced in China using coal power. Just producing the battery for an electric car can emit almost as much as a quarter of the greenhouse gasses emitted from a petrol car across its entire lifetime.

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    Perhaps it's too late to save the planet from man-caused destruction.

    Perhaps we should just do whatever the hell we want,

    but at least not procreate anymore.

    Why condemn one last generation to try surviving on an unlivable planet?

    No effort to stop polluting.

    No restrictions--in fact insistence--on abortion.

    Maybe that's the way way to go at this late point.

    I'm sure that somewhere in this vast universe, there are more intelligent life forms than we who've figured out that which we either couldn't or wouldn't.
    Last edited by NiftyNiblick; 11-22-2020 at 08:00 PM.
    Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson, 1775
    Religion....is the opiate of the people. Karl Marx, 1848
    Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose. Kris Kristofferson, 1969

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    Food For Thought: If electric cars are such a great idea why have we not already electrified the railroads?
    This illegal illegitimate regime that runs America is at fault...not me.... they do not represent me and I have long objected to their crimes against humanity.

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    Why are electric car advocates so opposed to BioDiesel?
    "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."
    — Joe Biden on Obama.

    Socialism is just the modern word for monarchy.

    D.C. has become a Guild System with an hierarchy and line of accession much like the Royal Court or priestly classes.

    Private citizens are perfectly able of doing a better job without "apprenticing".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primavera View Post
    There are just so many clueless people in the US and UK, I guess you'll find out the hard way that electric cars are just another expensive white elephant.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...s-save-planet/
    Consumer Reports found Tesla came in next to last on dependability.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    Why condemn one last generation to try surviving on an unlivable planet?
    Who told you that?
    "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."
    — Joe Biden on Obama.

    Socialism is just the modern word for monarchy.

    D.C. has become a Guild System with an hierarchy and line of accession much like the Royal Court or priestly classes.

    Private citizens are perfectly able of doing a better job without "apprenticing".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Consumer Reports found Tesla came in next to last on dependability.
    Not only do they need a lot of repairs, but getting them tends to be a problem too, compounding the problem.
    This illegal illegitimate regime that runs America is at fault...not me.... they do not represent me and I have long objected to their crimes against humanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    Perhaps it's too late to save the planet from man-caused destruction.

    Perhaps we should just do whatever the hell we want,

    but at least not procreate anymore.

    Why condemn one last generation to try surviving on an unlivable planet?

    No effort to stop polluting.

    No restrictions--in fact insistence--on abortion.

    Maybe that's the way way to go at this late point.

    I'm sure that somewhere in this vast universe, there are more intelligent life forms than we who've figured out that which we either couldn't or wouldn't.
    Do you drive an electric or biodiesel?

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    Electric cars are superior to fossil fuel powered cars, but they don't add up right.
    The Truth Does Not Need To Be Supported With Censorship.

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    Electric cars = Total scam

    All cars = Total scam
    DemoKKKrats: The dangerous fascist psychopaths Orwell warned us about.

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    Default

    .
    Here is the ex-editor of Popular Mechanics saying exactly why the Green New deal is just prime bullshit!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Primavera View Post
    There are just so many clueless people in the US and UK, I guess you'll find out the hard way that electric cars are just another expensive white elephant.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...s-save-planet/
    .

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    .
    So many idiots think they are being clever and posting that renewables are cheaper than natural gas now. Of course it's the usual smoke and mirrors one come to expect from climate alarmists.

    Renewables must help pay for transmission and their energy storage backup of fossil power plants


    Wind and solar advocates don’t include transmission and backup costs in their net energy calculations. But without fossil backup, the electric grid will come down due to lack of storage. There is almost nowhere left to put pumped hydro storage in the ten states that already have 80% of hydropower, there is only one Compressed Air Energy Storage plant in the U.S. in one of the few salt domes in three states along the Gulf coast that have salt domes (with half of it powered by natural gas turbines), and it would cost $41 trillion dollars to make Sodium Sulfur (NaS) batteries lasting 15 years to back up just one day of U.S. electricity generation (Friedemann 2015).

    Mexico is asking renewable companies to pay for transmission and natural gas / coal backup for when the wind isn’t blowing or the sun shining. About time, because this is all a gigantic waste of money if wind and solar can’t stand on their own, a dumb investment when we could have used the money to convert to organic farming, plant more trees, beef up infrastructure and other efforts to prepare for peak oil, coal, and natural gas and the lifestyle that will be forced upon us.

    Alice Friedemann www.energyskeptic.com author of “When Trucks Stop Running: Energy and the Future of Transportation”, 2015, Springer, Barriers to Making Algal Biofuels, and “Crunch! Whole Grain Artisan Chips and Crackers”. Podcasts: Collapse Chronicles, Derrick Jensen, Practical Prepping, KunstlerCast 253, KunstlerCast278, Peak Prosperity , XX2 report

    Garcia, D. A. 2020. Renewable firms in Mexico must contribute to grid backup – CFE chief. Reuters.
    MEXICO CITY (Reuters) – Private renewable energy firms in Mexico should pay for part of the baseload power underpinning the flow of electricity on the grid, the head of the state power company said….Renewable operators had not been pulling their weight in contributing to the infrastructure that sustains them.

    “Wind and photovoltaic (plants) don’t pay the CFE for the backup,” said Bartlett, referring to the cost of power generation from fossil fuels, mostly natural gas, to guarantee uninterrupted flow. “Do you think it’s fair for the CFE to subsidize these companies that don’t produce power all day?” he asked.

    The firms should also start helping to pay transmission costs, he said.

    “That’s not a free market, it’s theft,” said Bartlett, a close ally of President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, who has pledged to hold down electricity rates.

    CENACE cited the coronavirus pandemic as a justification, arguing that intermittent wind and solar power is not consistent with ensuring constant electricity supply.

    http://energyskeptic.com/2020/renewa...-power-plants/

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