Sweden Failed. Will America?

[NiftyNiblick]

The right does want the same open policy when it comes to fighting the pandemic. They oppose any restriction in spite of the surge, the overfilling of morgues, hospitals, etc., and the lack of preventive equipment.

That's absolutely true...but they certainly don't want to be like Sweden.
The American right would occupy insane asylums in Sweden...as they should be here.

[NiftyNiblick]

The right does want the same open policy when it comes to fighting the pandemic. They oppose any restriction in spite of the surge, the overfilling of morgues, hospitals, etc., and the lack of preventive equipment.

Yes...Sweden's failed covid policy is the only Swedish thing that the right wants, however.
The right certainly doesn't want to be like Sweden.
Sweden is a modern, progressive nation, covid failures not withstanding.
That's the opposite of what the right wants.

[cancel2 2022]

Yes...Sweden's failed covid policy is the only Swedish thing that the right wants, however.
The right certainly doesn't want to be like Sweden.
Sweden is a modern, progressive nation, covid failures not withstanding.
That's the opposite of what the right wants.

Sweden is 23rd in deaths/million, Nasty Knoblicker!

[anonymoose]

Actually, I have a hard time believing that. What is your source?

https://time.com/5899432/sweden-coronovirus-disaster/

Geez, you don't know about worldometers.info by now? It's THE definitive up to date source. Not Time. That's just another left biased rag that cherry picks to suit their agenda.

[Old Trapper]

Geez, you don't know about worldometers.info by now? It's THE definitive up to date source. Not Time. That's just another left biased rag that cherry picks to suit their agenda.

Then you should have no problem proving them wrong, or posting the source you rely on for your disinformation. Whoops, I forgot. Your kind doesn't have to provide a source. Your bull shit is good enough for all.

[anonymoose]

Then you should have no problem proving them wrong, or posting the source you rely on for your disinformation. Whoops, I forgot. Your kind doesn't have to provide a source. Your bull shit is good enough for all.

This ones on me. Last time I do your homework for you. Stupid and lazy.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Pure facts and data. No political agenda. I realize you consider facts and data as "disinformation" if they don't support your preconceived authoritarian political agenda.

[Darth Omar]

According to World0Meters Sweden is 23th in deaths per million...a lot of counties have done worse...I dont accept the conclusion that they have failed....what is the argument?

The ‘argument’ is Sweden didn’t get on board with the accepted COVID *dogma* so they must be ostracized for it.

[Sailor]

Yes...Sweden's failed covid policy is the only Swedish thing that the right wants, however.
The right certainly doesn't want to be like Sweden.
Sweden is a modern, progressive nation, covid failures not withstanding.
That's the opposite of what the right wants.

Sweden is a country run by capitalism. They gave up "progressive" ideas back in the late 90's + / -. It damn near sank them.

[NiftyNiblick]

Sweden is a country run by capitalism. They gave up "progressive" ideas back in the late 90's + / -. It damn near sank them.

First of all, capitalism is a condition of circumstance, not one of ideology.
If you live off your capital, ie, your own productive property, business profits and investment income, you're a capitalist.

If you live off your employment, and this would even include a thirty-million-dollar-a-year-baseball player,
You're NOT a captialist. Call yourself what you want, but what you are is a working class proletarian.

Does Sweden have highly unionized public and private sectors?
Does Sweden have universal healthcare?
It has both of those things.
It's a more progressive nation than we are, and it's not close.

[Sailor]

First of all, capitalism is a condition of circumstance, not one of ideology.
If you live off your capital, ie, your own productive property, business profits and investment income, you're a capitalist.

If you live off your employment, and this would even include a thirty-million-dollar-a-year-baseball player,
You're NOT a captialist. Call yourself what you want, but what you are is a working class proletarian.

Does Sweden have highly unionized public and private sectors?
Does Sweden have universal healthcare?
It has both of those things.
It's a more progressive nation than we are, and it's not close.

No. It was their progressive stance that nearly sank them. State-owned companies were sold and financial markets were deregulated, public monopolies were replaced with competition.
Sweden needed healthy companies and skilled workers, so top tax rates were rolled back while government welfare programs were redesigned. These reforms laid the ground for today’s competitive market oriented economy based on international openness and global free trade. The reason Sweden has any social programs is akin to the U.S., they are services paid for by capitalism. Has jack shit to do with the Government.

[Hawkeye10]

The ‘argument’ is Sweden didn’t get on board with the accepted COVID *dogma* so they must be ostracized for it.

And pressured onto conformity with the GroupThink, because in Dark Ages heretics must be hunted down and "fixed".

[NiftyNiblick]

Capitalism and Socialism are both words contaminated by cold-war propaganda connotations.

The private sector is captalism.
The public sector is socialism.
Both are going to exist no matter what, and they must co-exist..

The argument is where to set the parameters.

However, we continue to behave as if accurate communication and usage is not important.
The way many members on this forum mis-use the words capitalism and socialism,
clearly indicates that they've not educated themselves sufficiently to earn a voice in the discussion.

Red state crackers decry intellectualism and higher education as elitist and even communist,
while the corporate oligarchs who inform their opinions and basically pull their strings
have all the education and degrees necessary to do that.

We're in trouble, and in our current state, populism exascerbates the problem.
Never in our history have we more needed a good dose of elitism to get back on track.

[Hawkeye10]

Capitalism and Socialism are both words contaminated by cold-war propaganda connotations.

The private sector is captalism.
The public sector is socialism.
Both are going to exist no matter what, and they must co-exist..

The argument is where to set the parameters.

However, we continue to behave as if accurate communication and usage is not important.
The way many members on this forum mis-use the words capitalism and socialism,
clearly indicates that they've not educated themselves sufficiently to earn a voice in the discussion.

Red state crackers decry intellectualism and higher education as elitist and even communist,
while the corporate oligarchs who inform their opinions and basically pull their strings
have all the education and degrees necessary to do that.

We're in trouble, and in our current state, populism exascerbates the problem.
Never in our history have we more needed a good dose of elitism to get back on track.

Capitalism and socialism are terms a lot like Left and Right...outdated words that no longer reflect reality that have not been updated because we suck....we cant/wont keep up.

[NiftyNiblick]

Capitalism and socialism are terms a lot like Left and Right...outdated words that no longer reflect reality that have not been updated because we suck....we cant/wont keep up.

Even if "left" and "right" are awfully vague to be very helpful, they at least serve as superficially useful labels describing where people are on the comprehensiveness of the public sector and the regulation of the private sector.
That's hard, though, when we also use them to describe hawkishness versus non-interventionist, free trader versus protectionist, libertarian versus statist, etc.

Socialism and capitalism are actual things, and while we might reasonably say that they've become too "loaded' to be useful anymore,
that still doesn't forgive either deliberately misusing them or not bothering to learn their actual intended meaning.

[Hawkeye10]

Even if "left" and "right" are awfully vague to be very helpful, they at least serve as superficially useful labels describing where people are on the comprehensiveness of the public sector and the regulation of the private sector.
That's hard, though, when we also use them to describe hawkishness versus non-interventionist, free trader versus protectionist, libertarian versus statist, etc.

Socialism and capitalism are actual things, and while we might reasonably say that they've become too "loaded' to be useful anymore,
that still doesn't forgive either deliberately misusing them or not bothering to learn their actual intended meaning.

People are stupid and dishonest now....they tend to say what sounds good to them and what they think will get the what they want and what they have been brainwashed to say.... not what is.