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Thread: There is no evidence of herd immunity soon

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    Default There is no evidence of herd immunity soon

    The Alt Right claims that we are on the verge of herd immunity, or even that we have herd immunity. If that were true, we would see drastically dropping numbers of cases, we are seeing the opposite. Europe is seeing a second wave, America is seeing a third surge, and every country seems easily susceptible to a new outbreak.

    Being on the verge of herd immunity was a logical hypothesis, but it has been disproven. We are nowhere near herd immunity. And we do not know why. It appears you can get Covid-19 multiple times, which might be the reason. Also it appears that a mild case of Covid-19 does not setoff a strong immunity reaction, and that additional infections can be cumulative. This means that the second, or third time you get it might do more serious harm than the first time. Or maybe just far fewer people have gotten the disease than we first thought (and thus the disease is far more deadly).

    trump's whole policy was maybe he would get lucky. There used to be a chance of that, but right now there is looking to be no chance of that. Now we have to regret no attempt to put a contact tracing system into effect, and no quarantining of the spread of Covid-19.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    The Alt Right claims that we are on the verge of herd immunity, or even that we have herd immunity. If that were true, we would see drastically dropping numbers of cases, we are seeing the opposite. Europe is seeing a second wave, America is seeing a third surge, and every country seems easily susceptible to a new outbreak.

    Being on the verge of herd immunity was a logical hypothesis, but it has been disproven. We are nowhere near herd immunity. And we do not know why. It appears you can get Covid-19 multiple times, which might be the reason. Also it appears that a mild case of Covid-19 does not setoff a strong immunity reaction, and that additional infections can be cumulative. This means that the second, or third time you get it might do more serious harm than the first time. Or maybe just far fewer people have gotten the disease than we first thought (and thus the disease is far more deadly).

    trump's whole policy was maybe he would get lucky. There used to be a chance of that, but right now there is looking to be no chance of that. Now we have to regret no attempt to put a contact tracing system into effect, and no quarantining of the spread of Covid-19.
    Dont care. Survival of the fittest. Had it (never knew it until tested for the antibodies out of curiosity) , now immune to that strain at least. Humanity will come out stronger and more robust. You pussies can die.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymoose View Post
    Dont care. Survival of the fittest.
    trump supporters are losing life expectancy so quickly that they actually have dropped America's life expectancy in four out of the last five years. The rest of the country is gaining life expectancy. The fact is trump supporters are not very fit.

    Quote Originally Posted by anonymoose View Post
    Had it (never knew it until tested for the antibodies out of curiosity) , now immune to that strain at least.
    Maybe... Or maybe not. It looks like immunity fades, and you can get the same strain multiple times. Each time might be worse. You may well die from this. Or maybe not.

    The reason we fight these diseases is not because we know they will kill us, but because they might kill us.

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    Herd immunity is not something that we are allowed to know about, the experts will not talk honestly about it, and the Tech Overlords will continue to do their best to make sure that all internet droppings conform to the story that power wants told regardless of what the reality is.

    The West is rapidly dying.
    This illegal illegitimate regime that runs America is at fault...not me.... they do not represent me and I have long objected to their crimes against humanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post

    Maybe... Or maybe not. It looks like immunity fades, and you can get the same strain multiple times. Each time might be worse. You may well die from this. Or maybe not.

    The reason we fight these diseases is not because we know they will kill us, but because they might kill us.
    Good. Stay the fuck inside the rest of your life except when you "peaceful protest" and burn and loot your 'hood every time a cop has to shoot a black guy resisting arrest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Herd immunity is not something that we are allowed to know about, the experts will not talk honestly about it
    Herd immunity is often talked about. The problem is it is not well understood. We cannot allow diseases to go unchecked as an experiment, so we are left estimating the effects of herd immunity. This creates uncertainty, an uncertainty you apparently cannot deal with.

    Herd immunity is very important to the pro-vaccine argument. The anti-vaxxers argue that it should be everyone's personal choice whether he or she wants to get vaccinated. The experts respond that will leave gaps in herd immunity, and could kill people who did not get to choose. With contagious diseases, your mistakes can kill me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Herd immunity is often talked about. The problem is it is not well understood. We cannot allow diseases to go unchecked as an experiment, so we are left estimating the effects of herd immunity. This creates uncertainty, an uncertainty you apparently cannot deal with.

    Herd immunity is very important to the pro-vaccine argument. The anti-vaxxers argue that it should be everyone's personal choice whether he or she wants to get vaccinated. The experts respond that will leave gaps in herd immunity, and could kill people who did not get to choose. With contagious diseases, your mistakes can kill me.
    What a Bull Shit Artist you are.

    No wonder Trump doing it better so triggers you.
    This illegal illegitimate regime that runs America is at fault...not me.... they do not represent me and I have long objected to their crimes against humanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    What a Bull Shit Artist you are.
    The argument against anti-vaxxers is they are putting herd immunity at risk. The vaccines do not work 100%, so even vaccinated people need the herd immunity to protect them. The anti-vaxxer counter argument is herd immunity is not well understood. They are correct, but I see no reason to risk lives we do not have to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    The argument against anti-vaxxers is they are putting herd immunity at risk. The vaccines do not work 100%, so even vaccinated people need the herd immunity to protect them. The anti-vaxxer counter argument is herd immunity is not well understood. They are correct, but I see no reason to risk lives we do not have to.
    So we should shut down the country? For how long? Hell, we pretty much did that already, didn't we?
    Common sense is not a gift, it's a punishment because you have to deal with everyone who doesn't have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RB 60 View Post
    So we should shut down the country? For how long? Hell, we pretty much did that already, didn't we?
    Shutting down the entire country would be difficult, if not impossible. Contact tracing seems to be the best current solution. Intensive testing is also important. Maybe a vaccine will become available, but if it is not perfect, we will still be leaning on contact tracing heavily.

    But even before we talk about solutions, we need to identify problems. The Alt Right wants us to be delusional about the problems, because they have no solutions. They refuse to do the hard work to fight diseases, so instead chose to believe diseases are to one extent or another hoaxes.

    We get the promise that herd immunity will "soon" be curing all our problems. It keeps being in "a week or two", for months now.

    If herd immunity is even possible, it is very far away. That is reality. Now we must work out how to deal with that reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Shutting down the entire country would be difficult, if not impossible. Contact tracing seems to be the best current solution. Intensive testing is also important. Maybe a vaccine will become available, but if it is not perfect, we will still be leaning on contact tracing heavily.

    But even before we talk about solutions, we need to identify problems. The Alt Right wants us to be delusional about the problems, because they have no solutions. They refuse to do the hard work to fight diseases, so instead chose to believe diseases are to one extent or another hoaxes.

    We get the promise that herd immunity will "soon" be curing all our problems. It keeps being in "a week or two", for months now.

    If herd immunity is even possible, it is very far away. That is reality. Now we must work out how to deal with that reality.
    Isn't country wide "herd immunity" what Biden wants? Apparently he thinks the state's governors can't take care of their own states (although Calif, NY and NJ have proven they can't)
    Common sense is not a gift, it's a punishment because you have to deal with everyone who doesn't have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RB 60 View Post
    Isn't country wide "herd immunity" what Biden wants?
    We all want a perfect vaccine giving us worldwide herd immunity, but we want a lot of things. The point is to prepare for the worst reasonable case, not just hope for the best case.

    Quote Originally Posted by RB 60 View Post
    Apparently he thinks the state's governors can't take care of their own states
    No state is totally isolated from the world, so no it will not be able to be taken care of by one state governor. Why do you think it could?

    Is this the unaged cheese talking. Some unaged cheeses can make you violently ill. There are varieties of fresh cheese, but none come from rural Pennsylvania.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    We all want a perfect vaccine giving us worldwide herd immunity, but we want a lot of things. The point is to prepare for the worst reasonable case, not just hope for the best case.



    No state is totally isolated from the world, so no it will not be able to be taken care of by one state governor. Why do you think it could?

    Is this the unaged cheese talking. Some unaged cheeses can make you violently ill. There are varieties of fresh cheese, but none come from rural Pennsylvania.
    Do tell....this is fascinating....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    The Alt Right claims that we are on the verge of herd immunity, or even that we have herd immunity. If that were true, we would see drastically dropping numbers of cases, we are seeing the opposite. Europe is seeing a second wave, America is seeing a third surge, and every country seems easily susceptible to a new outbreak.

    Being on the verge of herd immunity was a logical hypothesis, but it has been disproven. We are nowhere near herd immunity. And we do not know why. It appears you can get Covid-19 multiple times, which might be the reason. Also it appears that a mild case of Covid-19 does not setoff a strong immunity reaction, and that additional infections can be cumulative. This means that the second, or third time you get it might do more serious harm than the first time. Or maybe just far fewer people have gotten the disease than we first thought (and thus the disease is far more deadly).

    trump's whole policy was maybe he would get lucky. There used to be a chance of that, but right now there is looking to be no chance of that. Now we have to regret no attempt to put a contact tracing system into effect, and no quarantining of the spread of Covid-19.
    Also it appears that a mild case of Covid-19 does not setoff a strong immunity reaction, and that additional infections can be cumulative.
    wtf is a strong immunity reaction?
    and you are saying a vaccine won't work - and this is horseshit about "cumulative"
    and it's rare to get a re-infections.

    In other words this is garbage

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    It looks like immunity fades, and you can get the same strain multiple times. Each time might be worse. You may well die from this. Or maybe not.
    Memory B cells indicate durable immunity in COVID-19
    https://www.news-medical.net/news/20...-COVID-19.aspx
    cells respond to viral antigens by first secreting germline or near-germline antibodies from plasmablasts outside the follicles. Once the T cells bind to the CD40 surface markers, leading to the stimulation of specific cytokines, B cells enter a process called class switching. As a result, they are now found within the germinal centers inside several lymphoid organs and mature functionally. This leads to the production of both long-lived plasma cells and memory B cells that can respond to a repeated challenge with the same or another antigen.

    Plasmablast expansion in the early B cell response has been suggested to lead to poor clinical outcomes. In contrast, memory B cells formed after SARS-CoV-2 infection offer durable specific immunity. Th

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