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Thread: Why do people still believe in Jesus and Christianity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    You would likely never have heard of Christianity or Jesus without Paul's missionary work to the Gentile communities.
    then its a good thing God gave him that kick in the butt on the road to Damascus......but then I guess he's given lots of kicks over the last 2000 years.......
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    then its a good thing God gave him that kick in the butt on the road to Damascus......but then I guess he's given lots of kicks over the last 2000 years.......
    I accept your tacit admission that the profound historical importance of Jesus ultimately depended on the outcome of events involving Saint Paul and Constantine, decades and centuries after his crucifixion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arks&sparka View Post
    What?
    That condescending arrogance of belief in a fabricated misnomer immaculate conception that's not within the laws of nature & nature's God certainly has those cross conditioned as a suicidal sociopscyhopathilogical homicidal human farming master race.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gemini104104 View Post

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Why does that make a difference? The great cycle of life. It's why farm and ranch girls are so much fun; they've seen the cycle of life and seek to enjoy it.
    I would have thought farm animals were more to your taste.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I accept your tacit admission that the profound historical importance of Jesus ultimately depended on the outcome of events involving Saint Paul and Constantine, decades and centuries after his crucifixion
    then you are dumber than I thought.......you have my actual admission that God would have brought it about in a different way if he hadn't chosen to do it the way he did......
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    then you are dumber than I thought.......you have my actual admission that God would have brought it about in a different way if he hadn't chosen to do it the way he did......
    mashaAllah

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    well Buddhists have the Pali cannon -which were also a rewrite/compendium of Buddhas suttas.
    They were passed down by oral tradition as well

    does that diminish their worth? Sorry I'm not following the point here
    The discussion was about any mention of Jesus in official Roman documents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Literate in the sense of being able to read and write. Jesus was born to peasant parents in a one horse town in a provincial backwater. He undoubtedly spoke Aramaic, but there is basically a zero chance he went to school and learned how to write. The NT explicitly points out that some of his peasant disciples from Galilee were Aramaic speaking illiterates, which would have been the standard, universal expectation for peasants from Gallile.

    I think there is a reason the NT was written in Greek by highly literate people of the Hellenistic world. None of the illiterate Aramaic speaking followers of Jesus could write anything down in Aramaic. If they could, we should have had a NT written in Aramaic
    Hebrew? He was presumably a regular attender, and shows all the signs of connection with progressive groups who would need to have known the Scriptures very well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Why does that make a difference? The great cycle of life. It's why farm and ranch girls are so much fun; they've seen the cycle of life and seek to enjoy it.
    The fear of dying has us seeing the "Great Njght" approaching.. our hardwired brains seek to find something that it "knows" is there, even if our minds know it isn't likely.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    then you are dumber than I thought.......you have my actual admission that God would have brought it about in a different way if he hadn't chosen to do it the way he did......
    Unfortunately, you have exactly zero tangible evidence that God had anything to do with Paul and Constantine.

    What the historical record shows is that without Paul and Constantine, the Gentiles and the Empire would barely have ever been aware of Jesus, of the obscure subsect of Judaism he led, or the religion based on him.

    I would say your garden variety Roman citizen never even heard about Jesus until about three centuries after his death.

    Which speaks to my insight about Jesus not being a profound part of history until centuries after his death, and his historical legacy depended on the efforts and decisions of other important Roman citizens

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    Quote Originally Posted by saltydancin View Post
    That condescending arrogance of belief in a fabricated misnomer immaculate conception that's not within the laws of nature & nature's God certainly has those cross conditioned as a suicidal sociopscyhopathilogical homicidal human farming master race.
    Yep. Good point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    The fear of dying has us seeing the "Great Njght" approaching.. our hardwired brains seek to find something that it "knows" is there, even if our minds know it isn't likely.
    Nice theory. Any research to back it up?
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    You would likely never have heard of Christianity or Jesus without Paul's missionary work to the Gentile communities, or without Constantine deciding to give the Empire's blessing to a minor and fairly obscure religion.

    Without Paul and Constantine, Christianity might well have remained an obscure and tiny sect of Judaism and might have faded away with time.

    That is what I meant that in the context of history, Jesus would never have been of profound historical influence without Paul and Constantine, and the events surrounding them over the course of three centuries.
    Isn't it amazing how God works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iolo eto View Post
    Hebrew? He was presumably a regular attender, and shows all the signs of connection with progressive groups who would need to have known the Scriptures very well.
    Scholars seem to think that illiteracy rates in the Jewish world of the first century was about 98 percent.

    As a historical fact, it seems highly unlikely that a child born to peasants, in a tiny village in the obscure backwater province of Galilee would have went to school or been thoroughly trained to read and write. He purportedly trained to be a woodworker.

    Anything is possible, we will never know with any certainty. To me, it does not matter if he was literate or not. He obviously had a message and a charisma that appealed to people. I merely was pointing out that a person of such lowly standing in the eyes of the Roman authorities would not have inspired them to keep and maintain written records about Jesus

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