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Thread: Biden: Lower Medicare Age From 65 To 60: YES!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Saudade,



    We could get there by adopting the American Anti-Corruption Act.

    I am baffled by the resistance to this idea. Nearly all Americans agree there is too much big money influencing government. Here is a way to control that and people can't be bothered.

    I hope people are not waiting for Congress to suddenly vote against themselves being showered with money...
    I'm not against the idea, but Citizens United makes the concept difficult to implement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Saudade,

    I'm afraid I don't get your point here. Opposites seem to be co-featured. We don't even have a UBI yet. If we are already leaning too far toward socialism, adopting the UBI would be go further. Me, I'm fine with that. Just tax the rich to pay for it. And the money will totally be there because as labor costs are further reduced from the cost of everything that means the poor getting poorer and the rich getting richer by that same amount. Thus they will have it to spare.

    Ultimately, it only makes perfect logic that as a society figures out how to get the things it wants without having to work for them then that society can enjoy those things and also enjoy more free time while maintaining a good standard of living.
    The bolded is the fundamental problem in your thinking. Nothing of worth comes without work.

    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    I disagree. That is only true if one is only considering impact to the wealth generation of the super-rich.
    Not everything is about "wealth generation." Bad regulations hurt a lot more than just the rich. If anything, regulations more often benefit the rich at the expense of everyone else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saudade View Post



    Not everything is about "wealth generation." Bad regulations hurt a lot more than just the rich. If anything, regulations more often benefit the rich at the expense of everyone else.
    Often times this is true.........

    Most hate regulations~on them~they love them on their competitors..........
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Often times this is true.........

    Most hate regulations~on them~they love them on their competitors..........
    Basically. This is especially evident when regulations are selectively enforced.

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    Hello Saudade,

    Quote Originally Posted by Saudade View Post
    I'm not against the idea, but Citizens United makes the concept difficult to implement.
    Not at all. That was a ruling. The SCOTUS does not make law, only rules on law. Lawmakers make law. They can make this new law and it does not violate the Constitution. It would never be challenged. It has absolutely no gray areas which could be challenged. It is in complete alignment with the US Constitution. If the founders had clairvoyance into today's world, they would surely have written the American Anti-Corruption Act directly into the Constitution.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Hello Saudade,

    Quote Originally Posted by Saudade View Post
    The bolded is the fundamental problem in your thinking. Nothing of worth comes without work.
    I agree. And that holds true for all the products of the future which will be produced as a result of the work of creating machines to produce what is desired. Since the amount of work to produce things has been reduced to a bare minimum, and in many cases, no further work will be required, that means society can enjoy the fruits of this labor without additional labor required.

    This is logically in keeping with a trend which has continued since the dawn of human history and the first major advancement of discovering how to control fire. Before that, existence was a constant effort without leisure, simply to survive. Many didn't. Controlling fire ire allowed humans to be able to eat quicker and ward off predators, thus freeing up human time. Throughout our existence more advancements have led to the ability for humans to have all they require and much more, while only having to work a portion of existence, the remainder of time being freed up for discretionary pursuits such as education, entertainment and leisure, now thought of to be commonplace in the developed world.

    The only reason people in the developed world do not have more leisure time is because of greedy super-rich capitalists who seek to take advantage of the powerless by controlling the supply of products and shamelessly forcing the needy to work long hours for basic existence. The product of all that labor makes the capitalists very rich. They get very much without working for it, thus again disproving your simplistic statement that 'nothing of worth comes without work.' It surely does. You get born into wealth, you have plenty of worth and you never had to work for it. Trump is an example of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saudade View Post
    Not everything is about "wealth generation." Bad regulations hurt a lot more than just the rich. If anything, regulations more often benefit the rich at the expense of everyone else.
    Regulations protect the environment, workers, and customers. Only the greediest super-rich see regulations as an impediment. They are seen as an impediment to unrestricted greed. A few unintended consequences are exploited in the PR of greed to paint the regulations which protect our society as a bad thing.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Saudade,

    I agree. And that holds true for all the products of the future which will be produced as a result of the work of creating machines to produce what is desired. Since the amount of work to produce things has been reduced to a bare minimum, and in many cases, no further work will be required, that means society can enjoy the fruits of this labor without additional labor required.

    This is logically in keeping with a trend which has continued since the dawn of human history and the first major advancement of discovering how to control fire. Before that, existence was a constant effort without leisure, simply to survive. Many didn't. Controlling fire ire allowed humans to be able to eat quicker and ward off predators, thus freeing up human time. Throughout our existence more advancements have led to the ability for humans to have all they require and much more, while only having to work a portion of existence, the remainder of time being freed up for discretionary pursuits such as education, entertainment and leisure, now thought of to be commonplace in the developed world.

    The only reason people in the developed world do not have more leisure time is because of greedy super-rich capitalists who seek to take advantage of the powerless by controlling the supply of products and shamelessly forcing the needy to work long hours for basic existence. The product of all that labor makes the capitalists very rich. They get very much without working for it, thus again disproving your simplistic statement that 'nothing of worth comes without work.' It surely does. You get born into wealth, you have plenty of worth and you never had to work for it. Trump is an example of that.
    Some poor countries fit your description, but the more common situation is that poor nations don't have the infrastructure or labor force to allow for higher quality of life. In order to reach the level of living standards we have, you need a pretty advanced infrastructure to accommodate that high level of living. By extension, you need a labor force that is highly skilled and educated. Poorer nations lack these things, so labor intensive and low skill industries tend to form the bulk of employment. This is why pay is low and hours are long. To just call that greed is ignorant of how things like comparative advantage works. These nations benefit from the fact their labor is cheaper than most. Over time, working class people can save some money for their children, but it doesn't happen overnight.

    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Regulations protect the environment, workers, and customers. Only the greediest super-rich see regulations as an impediment. They are seen as an impediment to unrestricted greed. A few unintended consequences are exploited in the PR of greed to paint the regulations which protect our society as a bad thing.
    You really do fixate on this "greed" concept. If you want to talk greed, how about the greed of bureaucrats wanting to take the wealth of others through taxation?

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    Hello Saudade,

    Quote Originally Posted by Saudade View Post
    Over time, working class people can save some money for their children, but it doesn't happen overnight.
    No, they can't, because we have made a business of keeping them in debt and paying outrageous interest rates at payday loan joints and buy-here-pay-here ripoff car lots. The greed of capitalism keeps an entire class of people locked into poverty, and anti-abortion measures for the poor ensure that poverty will grow with each generation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saudade View Post
    You really do fixate on this "greed" concept.
    I'll ask you again to leave me out of the conversation. Please make no comments about me. I am not the subject. I don't talk about you. PLEASE do not talk about me. I would have commented on the last sentence of your post, but since you tried to make it about me I will instead remind you that we agreed we will not talk about one another. It wasn't that you said anything so horrible about me. It's that you seem to have a habit of making it about the other poster instead of the subject. Habits can be difficult to break. I appreciate you trying to avoid this unacceptable type of arguing in the future, thank you. Academic discussions are not about the people doing the discussing. They are about subjects of mutual interest.

    When you or I become the subject, then a line is crossed. That's where I draw the line. It can only go downhill from there. One person says something about the other person, then the other person says something worse about the first person, then things escalate. The place to cut if off is right there where I draw the line. What is being talked about in a post? Please keep that in mind, thanks, and we'll be fine.

    Shall I launch into my advice about how to change habits? It is possible, but it takes a desire and a commitment to purpose.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    "Presidential candidate Joe Biden wants to lower the eligibility age for Medicare to 60 from 65."

    ***

    What a perfect time to do it, when many older Americans are leaving the workforce because they don't want to stay on and risk getting COVID-19. They face a desperate choice: Stay in the workforce for health insurance, and risk possible exposure ot COVID-19, or take early retirement without health insurance, and have the ability to social distance more effectively.

    ***

    "He also pointed out that Biden wants to create a public health insurance option and expand access to coverage through the health-care exchanges. Those options could end up being better for those folks than Medicare, he said.

    Separately, Biden wants Medicare to cover dental, vision and hearing, all of which are currently excluded. For that, beneficiaries can sign up for a Medicare Advantage Plan, which may provide some coverage.
    Lower prescription drug costs

    Biden also wants to reduce what Medicare beneficiaries pay for prescription drugs, notably by allowing the government to negotiate those prices — which is prohibited by law currently. The Congressional Budget Office has estimated such a move would save $456 billion from 2023 through 2029 (based on a House bill that would make the change).

    At the same time, though, the budget office report noted that negative effects may include reduced spending on research and development.

    Biden also would prohibit most drug prices from rising faster than inflation. "

    ***

    And he wants to raise taxes on the super-rich to pay for it.

    But only the super-rich. Actually a lot of very rich people, and everyone else, would still see no increase. Biden says everyone making $400,000 or less would not see their taxes raised.
    so how much will that cost and where will the money come from

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    Hello Bulletbob,

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulletbob View Post
    so how much will that cost and where will the money come from
    " ... he wants to raise taxes on the super-rich to pay for it.

    But only the super-rich. Actually a lot of very rich people, and everyone else, would still see no increase. Biden says everyone making $400,000 or less would not see their taxes raised."
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    Did Shaky Joe's handlers tell him how it's supposed to be paid for?
    Yes, he said Rich People like Donald Trump are going to have to start paying taxes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weeko Sportivo View Post
    Yes, he said Rich People like Donald Trump are going to have to start paying taxes.
    I thought Trump-haters claim he's broke.

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