PoliTalker (10-05-2020)
PoliTalker (10-05-2020)
PoliTalker (10-05-2020)
Get ready, if they respond, you are going to get a lot of Venezuela in the next few exchanges
No nation is one or the other, every country has a mixed economy, the US has been part socialistic since the 19th Century, the whole right wing conspiracy regarding socialism is absurd
PoliTalker (10-05-2020), Taichiliberal (10-11-2020)
Hello Michael_Panetta,
Actually, both nations have elements of capitalism and socialism.
The right simply cannot allow it to be said that America had socialism back when they thought America 'was' great. (as if it was not a great country in 2016.) When was it they thought America 'was' great?
Most people who answer that question talk about the 1950's.
And we had lots of socialism going on. Right alongside our capitalism. Social security was up and running just fine then. Capitalism was far better for the worker then, not as great for the super-rich. An average family could live on one income and have a vacation every year. We had mandated overtime pay over 40 hours per week, and a government mandated minimum wage. And the highest tax rate was over 90%. We used the money to build an interstate highway system, hospitals, airports, and we also sent a man to the moon. All because we taxed the rich more. Then Reagan came along and slashed taxes and all of that stuff from before just faded away.
But the rich got fabulously richer.
Back in the 1950's executives earned about 15-20 times what the average worker earned. Now it's hundreds. Some executives earn 400 times the average worker pay. Not the minimum, mind you. The AVERAGE. That includes all the employees from the top to the bottom. Average. Multiply by 400 to get the executive pay. Now, I know these people are good at what they do, but ya know what? All those other workers are too. There's just something wrong with so much greed. I can understand top people getting top pay. Yeah. The 15-20 times the average, back when America 'was' great? Yeah. That was fine. But now, the pure greed is just embarrassing. Maybe these people are good at what they do but the reality is that they are the few who are at the top of a system that rewards people at the top way too much, and doesn't equitably distribute wealth according to contribution to society.
As the comparison between The USA and Norway indicates in so many categories, clearly people have it better in Norway than in the USA. We don't make sure everybody is OK here. We write people off. We don't care about them. The only thing we want to make sure they have is no abortions. If every life is so precious before the moment of birth what the heck happens to all that caring at the point of birth? That makes no sense to want to force them into a world where they have little opportunity at having a nice life, and do little to nothing to help them enjoy a good life after birth.
It's like: "We care about them, we care about them, oh, we care so much about them," right up until birth; the magic moment; and then it's: "Get lost, you're on your own." "And by the way we are not hiring, and we don't want your kind around here."
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
Us unfettered cspitalism ? Someone is on crack.
"Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Joseph Stalin
The USA has lost WWIV to China with no other weapons but China Virus and some cash to buy democrats.
Uh...Norway is not Democratic Socialist. If they were they would not have a Parliament, or for that matter a King.
Don't be afraid to see what you see
The key question, always and everywhere, is to what degree the capitalists have weakened or destroyed the power of the trades unions. Socialism is control by working people in the interests of the whole human race, capitalism is a system of exploitation that will finish us all off quite soon. Meanwhile it is undoubtedly better to have some bits of the economy under some degree of democratic control for some of the time.
PoliTalker (10-06-2020)
Hello Penderyn,
There is a different model for a sort of democratic capitalism. A worker-owned cooperative is sort of like if a union bought a company, and then the workers actually jointly own the company. Then the workers elect the people who are running the company and making the decisions which affect the workers.
Sort of a socialistic capitalism.
Maybe a corporate charter should only be issued for a set duration, say 20 years, after which the company would revert to become a worker cooperative.
It's the for-profit corporations that last and last which accrue so much power they become harmful to society.
In capitalism everyone is in competition. But humans and start ups have a hard time competing with a much more powerful corporation. Every financial entity grows more powerful the longer it lasts. Humans accrue wealth and often get to a point where they have so much wealth they don't have to work any more. But that takes decades. And then they die. If they have children and pass their wealth on to their progeny, those children have a head start over other humans who inherit nothing and have to start from scratch. That's most people.
Corporations don't have the problem of dying. They can build power for as long as they exist. They have the ability to build much more power than any human could.
If corporations were limited by law to a set duration, and then they either get dissolved or revert to worker ownership, then that would help level the playing field for most humans who have to start from scratch with nothing.
Last edited by PoliTalker; 10-06-2020 at 07:29 AM.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
Where has socialism been universally applied, even Cuba and China always had elements of capitalism
You keep missing the point, no nation, no nation’s economic system, is based solely on one or the other, they are all mixed economies, to portray it as a dichotomy, a choice between one or the other, is erroneous
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