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Thread: Socialism Vs Capitalism

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geeko Sportivo View Post
    WTF does a government that is favoring the elite have to do with having less government?

    And no, you don't vote for the party who is less interventionalists in business and personal affairs.

    You most likely are a TRUMPTARDED FOOL who votes for the Republicans who are trying to control every aspect of our lives.
    What part of your life do you claim Republicans are trying to control? Provide a list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    Get ready, if they respond, you are going to get a lot of Venezuela in the next few exchanges

    No nation is one or the other, every country has a mixed economy, the US has been part socialistic since the 19th Century, the whole right wing conspiracy regarding socialism is absurd
    especially since fascism (corporatism) is the ruling paradigm. amazon supports blm for instance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    AOC does not favor the elite.

    Bernie does not favor the elite.

    If we get enough people elected who do not favor the elite, and we pass the American Anti-Corruption Act, then the power of big money over government will be greatly diminished.



    There are two kinds of regulation. One is written by the elite to favor them. That is the most common type, and that gives regulation a bad rap. The other kind is forced on the elite by grass roots initiative. That is what we need more of. It won't happen if the elite get their way of reducing government to an ineffective regulator of capitalism. Wanting smaller government as a one-size-fits-all measure plays directly into the hands of the elite capitalists.
    you're a simplistic naive moron on all fronts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geeko Sportivo View Post
    WTF does a government that is favoring the elite have to do with having less government?

    And no, you don't vote for the party who is less interventionalists in business and personal affairs.

    You most likely are a TRUMPTARDED FOOL who votes for the Republicans who are trying to control every aspect of our lives.
    How exactly are the Republicans trying to "control every aspect of our lives"? Most Republican policies are involved less in business and people's personal decisions.

    Republicans aren't trying to restrict what guns you can buy, who you do business with, how you do business, or what speech you use. They also are less restrictive regarding COVID regulations and environmental regulations.

    With the current administration, they're also less interventionist than Democrats in foreign policy as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Woko Haram,



    Singapore is erupting.
    Uh, how? It's considered one of the best countries in the world to live in, and it is one of the most economically free in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Woko Haram,



    The anti-union thing is a meme perpetrated by the super-rich to squash worker rights, reduce worker pay and benefits, and making working suck.

    It's all part of really rich people being chintzy and cheating the common man to further their own vast wealth.
    No, not really. I've spoken to a lot of people that live in union-heavy areas, particularly in the North and the West Coast. Their personal experiences with unions haven't exactly been flattering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    How exactly are the Republicans trying to "control every aspect of our lives"? Most Republican policies are involved less in business and people's personal decisions.

    Republicans aren't trying to restrict what guns you can buy, who you do business with, how you do business, or what speech you use. They also are less restrictive regarding COVID regulations and environmental regulations.

    With the current administration, they're also less interventionist than Democrats in foreign policy as well.
    The Republicans are trying to tell women what to do with their own bodies.

    The Republicans are trying to tell people what they can smoke and what they can't.

    The Republicans are trying to take away the health insurance of 30 Million Americans right in the middle of a deadly pandemic.

    The Republicans are trying to keep people from voting.

    The Republicans are trying to pollute the air and the water.

    The Republicans are trying to collude with Russia to interfere in our elections.

    The Republicans are trying their best to spread the deadly virus.

    The Republicans are trying to arm the public with machine guns.

    The Republicans are inciting violence.

    The Republicans want the police to kill minorities.

    The Republicans deny science!

    The Republicans want to tell people who they can and cannot marry.

    The Republicans are trying to defund public education.

    The Republicans are trying to end immigration.

    The Republicans are trying to end Social Security.

    The Republicans are trying to end labor Unions.

    Those will do for starters!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geeko Sportivo View Post
    The Republicans are trying to tell women what to do with their own bodies.
    I'm pro-choice, but that's not the argument they have. The pro-life argument is that the life of a child takes precedence over a "decision."

    Quote Originally Posted by Geeko Sportivo View Post
    The Republicans are trying to tell people what they can smoke and what they can't.
    Actually, Trump has been mostly hands off about pot. When Sessions was AG, he was a bit invasive, but Sessions got fired before he really did anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geeko Sportivo View Post
    The Republicans are trying to take away the health insurance of 30 Million Americans right in the middle of a deadly pandemic.
    How so? They haven't actually ended the ACA despite saying they would a few years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geeko Sportivo View Post
    The Republicans are trying to keep people from voting.
    They're trying to prevent voter fraud. That's only preventing people from illegally voting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geeko Sportivo View Post
    The Republicans are trying to pollute the air and the water.
    Reducing needless regulation isn't tantamount to polluting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geeko Sportivo View Post
    The Republicans are trying to collude with Russia to interfere in our elections.
    Really man? You're still not over the nothing-burger Mueller report?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geeko Sportivo View Post
    The Republicans are trying their best to spread the deadly virus.
    The Chinese Communist Party would agree with you, but no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geeko Sportivo View Post
    The Republicans are trying to arm the public with machine guns..
    Hah... I wish. Actual machine guns can only be bought by FFLs, or you have to spend ridiculous amounts of money on pre-ban ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geeko Sportivo View Post
    The Republicans are inciting violence.
    Uh, the violence is coming from your side -- BLM and Antifa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geeko Sportivo View Post
    The Republicans want the police to kill minorities.
    No, we just want the police to be able to establish order and apprehend criminals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geeko Sportivo View Post
    The Republicans deny science!
    Yeah, like how the Democrats deny science regarding sex differences and IQ studies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geeko Sportivo View Post
    The Republicans want to tell people who they can and cannot marry.
    Only some of them do that. The tide is turning regarding that sort of thing, even among religious people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geeko Sportivo View Post
    The Republicans are trying to defund public education.
    No, we just want people to have school choice -- primarily with regard to expanding charter school markets. Charter schools have been very good for minority communities in particular.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geeko Sportivo View Post
    The Republicans are trying to end immigration.
    No, we're trying to end illegal immigration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geeko Sportivo View Post
    The Republicans are trying to end Social Security.
    Hah, I wish. Switching to a superannuation system would be best, but SS is here to stay (until it goes bankrupt).

    Quote Originally Posted by Geeko Sportivo View Post
    The Republicans are trying to end labor Unions.

    Those will do for starters!
    When considering that many police unions support Trump, yeah... the GOP isn't trying to end unions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geeko Sportivo View Post
    The Republicans are trying to tell women what to do with their own bodies.
    While Democrats are telling men they have no rights in the reproduction process and can be charged with rape even in consensual sex because women have to be believed regardless of the lack of evidence while also making them responsible for child support even when they knew nothing about the child and had no say in its birth.

    The Republicans are trying to tell people what they can smoke and what they can't.
    So are Democrats, the only difference is the choice of organic material (tobacco v. marijuana)

    The Republicans are trying to take away the health insurance of 30 Million Americans right in the middle of a deadly pandemic.
    So are the Democrats. It's called "Medicare for all" in their case.

    The Republicans are trying to keep people from voting.
    While the Democrats are trying let the dead, illegally here, and anybody else that wants to vote do so as many times as they like whenever they like.

    The Republicans are trying to pollute the air and the water.
    While the Democrats are trying to force society back to the stone age since the only way to eliminate all pollution is to eliminate all industrial processes.

    The Republicans are trying to collude with Russia to interfere in our elections.
    While the Democrats are colluding with Russia, China, and anyone else that will hand them a big fat campaign donation, and willing to use quid pro quo to get into office.

    The Republicans are trying their best to spread the deadly virus.
    While Democrats are lying their best about the spread of a disease.

    The Republicans are trying to arm the public with machine guns.
    While the Democrats are trying to use government machineguns to control the public.

    The Republicans are inciting violence.
    While the Democrats are carrying out mass violence, looting, and rioting.

    The Republicans want the police to kill minorities.
    While the Democrats want to kill the police both literally and figuratively.

    The Republicans deny science!
    While the Democrats wouldn't know what science is if it ran them over in the street.

    The Republicans want to tell people who they can and cannot marry.
    While Democrats want to punish anyone who disagrees with them on this subject by imprisonment and confiscation of their wealth.

    The Republicans are trying to defund public education.
    While the Democrats are propagandizing and dumbing public education down to a point where it's worthless.

    The Republicans are trying to end immigration.
    While the Democrats are for abolishing borders entirely and letting every sickly moron on the planet in.

    The Republicans are trying to end Social Security.
    While the Democrats are trying to make it the only thing retirees can have.

    The Republicans are trying to end labor Unions.
    While the Democrats are tying to end a worker's right to choose or not choose union membership.

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    Hello Woko Haram,

    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    Uh, how? It's considered one of the best countries in the world to live in, and it is one of the most economically free in the world.
    My bad. I was confusing it with someplace else. No current rioting in Singapore. I retract my previous post. Thank you for prompting me to learn more about Singapore.

    From what I have learned it is wishful thinking that the USA could be run like Singapore. Their unique physical location sets them up as an ideal shipping hub, which accounts for much of the prosperity there. Home ownership is over 90%. The populace is quite healthy with obesity rates below 10%.

    One admirable aspect of Singapore is that, unlike the USA, they have managed to effectively prevent government corruption. The ramifications of this cannot be understated. Big money is not allowed to corrupt government. Their government MPs are not allowed to be bought and owned by the greedy super-rich.

    Singapore operates on a mixture of capitalism and socialism. Tax revenue is used to fund a large and effective government, with nearly a quarter of the economy being run directly by the government:

    "Despite market freedom, Singapore's government operations have a significant stake in the economy, contributing 22% of the GDP.[241]" (wiki)

    A large part of their economic bounty results from the fact that the government controls the healthcare system, does not permit excessive profiting from healthcare. This leads to Singapore having a very low percentage of the economy being spent on healthcare.

    "The government's healthcare system is based upon the "3M" framework. This has three components: Medifund, which provides a safety net for those not able to otherwise afford healthcare, Medisave, a compulsory national medical savings account system covering about 85% of the population, and Medishield, a government-funded health insurance program. Public hospitals in Singapore have a considerable autonomy in their management decisions, and notionally compete for patients, however they remain in government ownership and government appoints their boards and Chief Executive Officers and management reports and is responsible to these boards.[415] A subsidy scheme exists for those on low income.[416] In 2008, 32% of healthcare was funded by the government. It accounts for approximately 3.5% of Singapore's GDP.[417]" wiki

    Singapore is the world's most expensive city to live in. As a result, it has become imperative for Singapore to have government programs to provide for the poor in order to improve their living conditions:

    "The government provides numerous assistance programmes to the homeless and needy through the Ministry of Social and Family Development, so acute poverty is rare. Some of the programmes include providing between S$400 and S$1000 of financial assistance per month to needy households, providing free medical care at government hospitals, and paying for children's tuition.[253][254][255] Other benefits include compensation for gym fees to encourage citizens to exercise,[256] up to S$166,000 as a baby bonus for each citizen,[257] heavily subsidised healthcare, financial aid for the disabled, the provision of reduced-cost laptops for poor students,[258] rebates for costs such as public transport[259] and utility bills, and more.[260][261" (wiki)

    Despite having extensive socialist government programs to help the poor with government assistance, education and healthcare, people have not become addicted to government hand-outs, primarily because (unlike the USA) there is ample opportunity to work at well-paying jobs. That is why home ownership is so high, and there are a lot of people with a lot of money in Singapore. They have truly shared the wealth and this has resulted in widespread wealth distribution. 1 out of every 6 households in Singapore is worth at least a million dollars.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Hello Woko Haram,

    The flaw I see in your view is that you still seem to think a choice must be made between capitalism and socialism.

    Have you never accepted that the two can co-exist?

    Are you clinging to a false idea that countries must choose one or the other?
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Hello Woko Haram,

    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    No, not really. I've spoken to a lot of people that live in union-heavy areas, particularly in the North and the West Coast. Their personal experiences with unions haven't exactly been flattering.
    An irrelevant personal anecdote which does not address my contention:

    "The anti-union thing is a meme perpetrated by the super-rich to squash worker rights, reduce worker pay and benefits, and making working suck.

    It's all part of really rich people being chintzy and cheating the common man to further their own vast wealth."
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Woko Haram,



    An irrelevant personal anecdote which does not address my contention:

    "The anti-union thing is a meme perpetrated by the super-rich to squash worker rights, reduce worker pay and benefits, and making working suck.

    It's all part of really rich people being chintzy and cheating the common man to further their own vast wealth."
    You realize don't you that union members are the useful idiots of union leaders and "the super-rich" who work in concert to get rich off the back of that labor. You're an idiot if you're in a union

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    if one's capitalism allows bank and corporate bailouts but not aid programs for individuals, then one is most assuredly a fascist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Woko Haram,

    My bad. I was confusing it with someplace else. No current rioting in Singapore. I retract my previous post. Thank you for prompting me to learn more about Singapore.

    From what I have learned it is wishful thinking that the USA could be run like Singapore. Their unique physical location sets them up as an ideal shipping hub, which accounts for much of the prosperity there. Home ownership is over 90%. The populace is quite healthy with obesity rates below 10%.

    One admirable aspect of Singapore is that, unlike the USA, they have managed to effectively prevent government corruption. The ramifications of this cannot be understated. Big money is not allowed to corrupt government. Their government MPs are not allowed to be bought and owned by the greedy super-rich.

    Singapore operates on a mixture of capitalism and socialism. Tax revenue is used to fund a large and effective government, with nearly a quarter of the economy being run directly by the government:

    "Despite market freedom, Singapore's government operations have a significant stake in the economy, contributing 22% of the GDP.[241]" (wiki)
    All of that is true, although the American government has a larger stake in our economy than Singapore's government has in theirs. By the most recent estimates, roughly 35% of the US GDP is from government spending. Singapore's 22% is pretty low when compared to most other countries in the First World. It's about 40% in the UK, 45% in Germany, 39% in Japan, and 57% in France. One of the few major economies in the First World with a lower percentage is South Korea at about 21%.

    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    A large part of their economic bounty results from the fact that the government controls the healthcare system, does not permit excessive profiting from healthcare. This leads to Singapore having a very low percentage of the economy being spent on healthcare.

    "The government's healthcare system is based upon the "3M" framework. This has three components: Medifund, which provides a safety net for those not able to otherwise afford healthcare, Medisave, a compulsory national medical savings account system covering about 85% of the population, and Medishield, a government-funded health insurance program. Public hospitals in Singapore have a considerable autonomy in their management decisions, and notionally compete for patients, however they remain in government ownership and government appoints their boards and Chief Executive Officers and management reports and is responsible to these boards.[415] A subsidy scheme exists for those on low income.[416] In 2008, 32% of healthcare was funded by the government. It accounts for approximately 3.5% of Singapore's GDP.[417]" wiki

    Singapore is the world's most expensive city to live in. As a result, it has become imperative for Singapore to have government programs to provide for the poor in order to improve their living conditions:

    "The government provides numerous assistance programmes to the homeless and needy through the Ministry of Social and Family Development, so acute poverty is rare. Some of the programmes include providing between S$400 and S$1000 of financial assistance per month to needy households, providing free medical care at government hospitals, and paying for children's tuition.[253][254][255] Other benefits include compensation for gym fees to encourage citizens to exercise,[256] up to S$166,000 as a baby bonus for each citizen,[257] heavily subsidised healthcare, financial aid for the disabled, the provision of reduced-cost laptops for poor students,[258] rebates for costs such as public transport[259] and utility bills, and more.[260][261" (wiki)

    Despite having extensive socialist government programs to help the poor with government assistance, education and healthcare, people have not become addicted to government hand-outs, primarily because (unlike the USA) there is ample opportunity to work at well-paying jobs. That is why home ownership is so high, and there are a lot of people with a lot of money in Singapore. They have truly shared the wealth and this has resulted in widespread wealth distribution. 1 out of every 6 households in Singapore is worth at least a million dollars.
    You've reversed what actually happened with the last 2 sentences. They share the wealth because they have so much to begin with. Singapore became wealthy by having a very free market. The public amenities are a luxury provided by the results of said free market.

    Now, if you're arguing that we should free the market here more before taking Singapore's approach, I'd be all for that. That doesn't seem to be the plan that Democrats have, however.

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