Herd immunity is stubborn and won’t go away

**Darth Omar** · 09-27-2020, 06:21 AM

The CDC's current best estimate is that as many as 40% of those infected with COVID-19 remain asymptomatic. The T cell theory has emerged over the last few months as a promising, though still preliminary, explanation for why such a significant percentage of infections may be essentially harmless.

Research into the matter has continued steadily since the earlier days of the pandemic. A study published in the journal Science in early August, for instance, suggests that "variegated T cell memory to coronaviruses that cause the common cold may underlie at least some of the extensive heterogeneity observed in COVID-19 disease."

That study was funded in part by Fauci's own NIAID.

https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...mpression=true
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The T-cell theory is an attempt to explain the remarkable fact that up to 40% of COVID infections remain asymptomatic.

Fauci and Rand Paul got into a testy exchange about why the 40% native immunity shouldn’t be added in with the 22% acquired immunity in NYC—since that neatly explains why NYC was ravaged by the China virus but suddenly went—and remains, quiet.

If 62% isn’t the herd immunity threshold it’s knocking hard at the door.

What I can’t wrap my brain around is why Fauci insists that we have understand the precise immune mechanism that explains the 40% asymptomatic rate.

Just go with it. Why is it necessary to know *exactly why* that number is so high? For whatever reasons, 40% is the base rate of immunity in a population. Maybe it’s T-cells, maybe it’s something yet to be discovered.

So, when the acquired COVID immunity starts to creep up close to 20% in a population, it’s safe to assume the virus is close to done virusing at least in that population or community. It certainly *seems* to be doing exactly that in several places around the world.

I don’t understand why this is such a big problem.

**dukkha** · 09-27-2020, 06:24 AM

"variegated T cell memory to coronaviruses that cause the common cold may underlie at least some of the extensive heterogeneity observed in COVID-19 disease."

clearly i need tof ind out more about coronavirus - i dont get the connection to a common cold

**dukkha** · 09-27-2020, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by Phantasmal

Why is herd immunity the problem? The number of people that have to die to achieve herd immunity.
You are as ignorant as Rand Paul if you believe 20% is close to done, 61.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...in-the-us/amp/

JFC.. do some studying up on asymptomatic positive cases (no sickness or deaths) that still produce antibodies

and the role of T-cells and B memory cells for long term immunity after the antibodies fade

**ThatOwlWoman** · 09-27-2020, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by dukkha

clearly i need tof ind out more about coronavirus - i dont get the connection to a common cold

"Common colds" are almost all caused by coronaviruses. It's a very large family.

ETA: Some researchers into SARS-CoV2 believe that prior exposure to the ubiquitous coronavirus family may have created antibodies that help the individual fight off infection with COVID. Why then do some ppl seem to be able to throw off this virus, and others succumb? That's the million dollar question. Research continues.

**dukkha** · 09-27-2020, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman

"Common colds" are almost all caused by coronaviruses.

thanks I'm looking at it now.

Because memory T cells have been trained to recognize specific antigens, they will trigger a faster and stronger immune response after encountering the same antigen.
https://www.genscript.com/antibody-d...ey-formed.html

so corona virus that cause common colds, are recognized antigens by the memory T-cells and produce immune system responses.
Meaning the common cold also produces herd immunity? ( by T-cell recognition?)

**Darth Omar** · 09-27-2020, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by dukkha

clearly i need tof ind out more about coronavirus - i dont get the connection to a common cold

Same family of viruses. Makes perfect sense that there would be some cross-reactive immune factors. IOW, the immune system would ‘recognize’ COVID—at least somewhat, from past encounters with cold viruses from the same family.

The important thing is that there is ****something**** that keeps 40% of the population from getting sick with it.

They are effectively immune to COVID. Why do we need to know anything more in terms of herd immunity?

**Stone** · 09-27-2020, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by That Shit Pot Scrubber

Im just happy my fat old ass doesnt have to scrub shit pots out at the nursing home anymore. Especially in Michigan, damn Covid shit pots everywhere. Talk about a shitty job!

Doesnt sound too good TSPS, not good at all. : (

**Darth Omar** · 09-27-2020, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by dukkha

clearly i need tof ind out more about coronavirus - i dont get the connection to a common cold

It’s viral nomenclature: Coronavirus might be the Family; SARS is maybe the genus [I forgot a lot of this crap lol] with SARS COVID II being the precise species.

Something to the effect.

**Rune** · 09-27-2020, 06:57 AM

Wait, I have a stupid guess too.

**ThatOwlWoman** · 09-27-2020, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by dukkha

thanks I'm looking at it now.

so corona virus that cause common colds, are recognized antigens by the memory T-cells and produce immune system responses.
Meaning the common cold also produces herd immunity? ( by T-cell recognition?)

I don't know about a "herd," but yes -- infection with a typical virus will activate the immune system, and the "memory" of that infection will live on in your system. If exposed to the same virus in the future, you should be either totally immune, or have enough left that you would only get a mild illness. Hopefully this will prove to be the case with COVID as well.

That being said, the immunity wanes with time and age. This is why most adults don't catch colds as often, until they reach old age. It's also why we need to get boosters of vaccines we received in childhood: Tetanus, pertussis, etc. Example: As a g-ma I had plenty of DPT shots as a kid and remain at least partially immune to those diseases. But I could still catch a mild case of pertussis. Not a biggie for me, but I could give it to my newborn g-son who has no immunities yet. That's why you see ads pushing the pertussis vaccine on us elders.

**Darth Omar** · 09-27-2020, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by Rune

Wait, I have a stupid guess too.

Let me guess, you like Fauci’s guess lol.

**dukkha** · 09-27-2020, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by Darth Omar

Same family of viruses. Makes perfect sense that there would be some cross-reactive immune factors. IOW, the immune system would ‘recognize’ COVID—at least somewhat, from past encounters with cold viruses from the same family.

The important thing is that there is ****something**** that keeps 40% of the population from getting sick with it.

They are effectively immune to COVID. Why do we need to know anything more in terms of herd immunity?

Fauci and Rand Paul got into a testy exchange about why the 40% native immunity shouldn’t be added in with the 22% acquired immunity in NYC—since that neatly explains why NYC was ravaged by the China virus but suddenly went—and remains, quiet.

Fauci is a complete ass.
that;s good reasoning why herd immunity is accomplished with only 22% actual infection rate.

He's a pompous out of touch face time preener.. he's a dumb ass