Page 3 of 17 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 254

Thread: Ways That Socialsm Can Be Better Than Capitalism

  1. #31 | Top
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Hooterville by the sea
    Posts
    23,264
    Thanks
    6,282
    Thanked 16,527 Times in 11,565 Posts
    Groans
    1,236
    Groaned 513 Times in 483 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    But you have been around enough to know that the Republican claim was that Obama was a Marxist Socialist.

    Obama was only trying to make USA a little bit more like Denmark in terms of social welfare.

    Since Republicans claim that any attempt to make ourselves a little tiny bit more like Denmark is socialism, then that is the standard we can legitimately use.


    Sidebar- as Phan pointed out, the principles of socialism have been employed in a variety of ways, just like the principles of capitalism have.
    Nice try but,

    Democratic Socialists have presented Denmark as the elusive nation where socialism has been successful, and thus a model for the policies they would implement in the United States. Bernie Sanders regularly invoked Denmark during the 2016 presidential campaign, and Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez reassured 60 Minutes viewers that her version of democratic socialism would veer more toward Denmark than Venezuela. Just weeks ago a free-market think tank in Denmark, the Center for Political Studies (CEPOS), issued a 20-page report telling Americans that 1) Denmark is not a socialist nation; and 2) statist policies have still caused significant economic harm.

    Denmark is not socialist

    The 20-page report notes that, by some measures, Denmark and the Nordic “socialist” countries have more economic freedom than the United States:
    https://blog.acton.org/archives/1058...0aAmdgEALw_wcB

    You lefties always leave out the capitalist part of their economies.

    BTW
    There are only three true socialist countries: North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela. All of which are total disasters.

  2. #32 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    38,070
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 18,929 Times in 13,196 Posts
    Groans
    3
    Groaned 832 Times in 791 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Now, before you get all triggered and go off about how capitalism is always better than socialism, just hear me out.

    Capitalism is a wonderful engine of ingenuity and there is no way we want to abandon capitalism.

    And the old BS about how socialism is a creeping weed that will completely displace capitalism over time is just, well, BS. We've had both for a long time, and that has not happened.

    So now that we understand the best economic system is really a mixture of both, let us talk about some of the ways where socialism can be better than capitalism.

    I am going to give you two examples of ways you might be getting ripped off by capitalism. There are myriads of ways, but here are two that come to mind.

    Charcoal starter fluid and tire wet.

    Have you ever purchased either of these two products?

    No big deal. Like many of us, you may have bought one or both of these products and used them for the intended purpose. No big deal, right? That's what they are for, right?

    Well, they do a good job at what they say they do, but ya got ripped off.

    What?

    How do I know that?

    Well, I hate to spoil the 'ingenuity of capitalism' for ya, but the only ingenuity in both of these products is packaging and taking advantage of an unsuspecting public.

    Both of these products are not products at all. They are simply common substances repackaged to appear to be something new, formulated for a specific purpose.

    Here's what you are getting when you buy these products:

    Charcoal starter is really mineral spirits. If you paid $4 - $7 for a quart of charcoal starter, you could have paid about $7 - $9 and gotten a gallon of mineral spirits and done the same thing. There's more going up in smoke than the charcoal starter. Your money.

    How about 'tire wet?' That's really mineral oil. If you spent $7 - $12 or $16 for a bottle of 'tire wet,' you got ripped off. Once again, a greedy corporation took advantage of the fact that you probably didn't know the 'product' is really a common substance that you could have paid far less for.

    That's because part of the 'ingenuity of capitalism' is to find a way to exploit an unsuspecting public by getting them to pay more for something than they really have to.

    A socialist government department of consumer awareness could alert the public of these and similar scams to keep the worst of capitalism from taking advantage of good people who worked hard for their money.

    I'm all for competition and coming up with ingenious new inventions and useful products. Socialism isn't going to do that. What it can do is protect us from shysters and legal 'scams.'

    Let's embrace socialism, and stop getting ripped off! This will force capitalism to be at it's true best. Doing what is really beneficial to society, instead of simply (and lazily) looking for easy money, ways to rip people off, and generally just trying extract as many dollars out of the general public as possible, whether true value is delivered or not, to be gathered together for the richest previous holders of vast wealth.

    The last thing we really want is a society where wealth inequality grows ever more extreme. But that's what we've got. And that big money doesn't want you to know how you're getting ripped off.

    The true measure of a country is not how wealthy the richest are, but how well that country treats the least advantaged members of society.

    The richer the richest get, the more taxes they need to be paying to support the least advantaged. And that is just pure logic.

    We don't have to abandon capitalism to get smart and stop wasting money.

    Remember: Benjamin Franklin was right. A penny saved is a penny earned.

    The only difference is these days it is a dollar. LOTS of them.

    Capitalism will use all it's power to try to get your money out of your hands. It's time we use all OUR collective power to keep the greedy side of capitalism at bay. We need use socialism to force capitalism to stay focused on creating useful new products and ways to do things that truly help people.

    That's a win/win for America.

    Because making America greater doesn't always mean making the rich richer.

    We all need to consider how socialism can help capitalism provide better healthcare, too.

    That's one of the biggest ways we are getting ripped off.
    You confused Marketing with Capitalism. Even in a Socialist society Marketing exists.



    Here's an example from Venezuela. The box contains a variable amount (based on what the government can get) of crappy basic food products. The box is printed with pictures of "heroes" on it and has things like government propaganda about how great things are. Nothing new there, it's just Marketing. Sure, there are differences in how things are marketed in a Capitalist and Socialist society, but Marketing exists in both.

  3. #33 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    34,430
    Thanks
    23,941
    Thanked 19,095 Times in 13,072 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 5,908 Times in 5,169 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Hello T. A. Gardner,

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    You confused Marketing with Capitalism. Even in a Socialist society Marketing exists.



    Here's an example from Venezuela. The box contains a variable amount (based on what the government can get) of crappy basic food products. The box is printed with pictures of "heroes" on it and has things like government propaganda about how great things are. Nothing new there, it's just Marketing. Sure, there are differences in how things are marketed in a Capitalist and Socialist society, but Marketing exists in both.
    There is no confusion.

    Capitalists will exploit any angle they can find that will help them extract money out of the hands of unsuspecting people who have precious little of it to spare. Marketing is a huge part of capitalism.

    My dentist told me to use a certain toothpaste.

    I went and got some. After all, it came with a threat that if I don't do everything he says I will lose my teeth. It was the most expensive toothpaste I could buy. It costs easily ten times the lower priced stuff.

    Is it really ten times as good?

    I looked at the ingredients. At least the ones they chose to put on the label. After all, it's not food, so they are not required to put all the ingredients on the label. (btw, capitalism fought and lost that battle over food.) The ingredients looked remarkably similar. Both products work pretty well. Both products get my teeth very clean and smooth.

    Am I really getting my money's worth by buying the one that costs ten times as much?

    Or is it really a big marketing campaign I am paying for.

    Does the toothpaste manufacturer pay cute representatives, often ex college cheerleaders, to go around and visit each dentist and butter him up with perks to recommend the expensive toothpaste? Does the price include fancy advertising on TV? Is the cost of that high-priced toothpaste really because it is so much better?

    Or is it to pay for marketing and hype, and then some, to get people to pay more for it than they really would need to if we had a proper socialist consumer information and awareness agency of the US federal government?

    If we had such an agency, it could alert people to when they are getting ripped off.

    We created one under Obama, and it was greatly the efforts of Elizabeth Warren that brought it about. It immediately began identifying major ways American consumers were getting ripped off.

    The CFPB returned BILLIONS to Americans who had been ripped off.

    All of that came to a crashing stop when Trump put a puppet in charge.

    The rip-offs returned.

    This agency should be revamped and expanded to do so much more for American consumers.

    Such as telling people what is in the products they buy.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

  4. #34 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    71,685
    Thanks
    6,597
    Thanked 12,131 Times in 9,660 Posts
    Groans
    14
    Groaned 504 Times in 477 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    You confused Marketing with Capitalism. Even in a Socialist society Marketing exists.



    Here's an example from Venezuela. The box contains a variable amount (based on what the government can get) of crappy basic food products. The box is printed with pictures of "heroes" on it and has things like government propaganda about how great things are. Nothing new there, it's just Marketing. Sure, there are differences in how things are marketed in a Capitalist and Socialist society, but Marketing exists in both.
    so how would your socialist utopia stop businesses from reselling mineral oil as tire shine?

  5. #35 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    38,070
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 18,929 Times in 13,196 Posts
    Groans
    3
    Groaned 832 Times in 791 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post

    There is no confusion.
    Yes, there is...

    Capitalists will exploit any angle they can find that will help them extract money out of the hands of unsuspecting people who have precious little of it to spare. Marketing is a huge part of capitalism.
    So do Socialists. Propaganda keeps them in power.

    My dentist told me to use a certain toothpaste.

    I went and got some. After all, it came with a threat that if I don't do everything he says I will lose my teeth. It was the most expensive toothpaste I could buy. It costs easily ten times the lower priced stuff.

    Is it really ten times as good?

    I looked at the ingredients. At least the ones they chose to put on the label. After all, it's not food, so they are not required to put all the ingredients on the label. (btw, capitalism fought and lost that battle over food.) The ingredients looked remarkably similar. Both products work pretty well. Both products get my teeth very clean and smooth.

    Am I really getting my money's worth by buying the one that costs ten times as much?

    Or is it really a big marketing campaign I am paying for.

    Does the toothpaste manufacturer pay cute representatives, often ex college cheerleaders, to go around and visit each dentist and butter him up with perks to recommend the expensive toothpaste? Does the price include fancy advertising on TV? Is the cost of that high-priced toothpaste really because it is so much better?

    Or is it to pay for marketing and hype, and then some, to get people to pay more for it than they really would need to if we had a proper socialist consumer information and awareness agency of the US federal government?

    If we had such an agency, it could alert people to when they are getting ripped off.
    Or, the government would rip you off instead. All of the above can and does happen in a Socialist society. The government can lie to you with impunity. At least in a Capitalist society today, there are watchdogs both in government and society that call out false advertising by private companies. With the government there is none. The government can even imprison those that question what they say. That happens all the time in Socialist societies.
    For example, in France a lot of bad news goes unreported simply because the government wants it unreported.

    We created one under Obama, and it was greatly the efforts of Elizabeth Warren that brought it about. It immediately began identifying major ways American consumers were getting ripped off.
    The CPSC (Consumer Product Safety Commission) cuts both ways. They often shove an excess of safety down our throats because they can.

    The CFPB returned BILLIONS to Americans who had been ripped off.
    Same thing. They may be a boon to some, to others they're just another bureaucracy getting in the way.

    All of that came to a crashing stop when Trump put a puppet in charge.

    The rip-offs returned.

    This agency should be revamped and expanded to do so much more for American consumers.

    Such as telling people what is in the products they buy.
    The only difference between a Capitalist society and a Socialist society is who's doing the ripping off. In the former it's private companies and individuals subject to getting caught and prosecuted by government. In the latter it's government who isn't beholden to anyone and isn't libel for anything they do. A perfect example of this in action is the Gold King mine disaster.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_G...te_water_spill

    If a private corporation did that, they'd be held libel for billions in clean up and restitution. But because it was the EPA running the show they washed their hands of all liability and told those harmed by their actions, "Too bad. We're the government and we're not libel for anything we do..."

  6. #36 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    38,070
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 18,929 Times in 13,196 Posts
    Groans
    3
    Groaned 832 Times in 791 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    so how would your socialist utopia stop businesses from reselling mineral oil as tire shine?
    The second you get caught it's off to the gulag for you. The government hates competition...

  7. #37 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    29,740
    Thanks
    2,748
    Thanked 10,875 Times in 8,272 Posts
    Groans
    41
    Groaned 594 Times in 590 Posts
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Now, before you get all triggered and go off about how capitalism is always better than socialism, just hear me out.

    Capitalism is a wonderful engine of ingenuity and there is no way we want to abandon capitalism.

    And the old BS about how socialism is a creeping weed that will completely displace capitalism over time is just, well, BS. We've had both for a long time, and that has not happened.

    So now that we understand the best economic system is really a mixture of both, let us talk about some of the ways where socialism can be better than capitalism.

    I am going to give you two examples of ways you might be getting ripped off by capitalism. There are myriads of ways, but here are two that come to mind.

    Charcoal starter fluid and tire wet.

    Have you ever purchased either of these two products?

    No big deal. Like many of us, you may have bought one or both of these products and used them for the intended purpose. No big deal, right? That's what they are for, right?

    Well, they do a good job at what they say they do, but ya got ripped off.

    What?

    How do I know that?

    Well, I hate to spoil the 'ingenuity of capitalism' for ya, but the only ingenuity in both of these products is packaging and taking advantage of an unsuspecting public.

    Both of these products are not products at all. They are simply common substances repackaged to appear to be something new, formulated for a specific purpose.

    Here's what you are getting when you buy these products:

    Charcoal starter is really mineral spirits. If you paid $4 - $7 for a quart of charcoal starter, you could have paid about $7 - $9 and gotten a gallon of mineral spirits and done the same thing. There's more going up in smoke than the charcoal starter. Your money.

    How about 'tire wet?' That's really mineral oil. If you spent $7 - $12 or $16 for a bottle of 'tire wet,' you got ripped off. Once again, a greedy corporation took advantage of the fact that you probably didn't know the 'product' is really a common substance that you could have paid far less for.

    That's because part of the 'ingenuity of capitalism' is to find a way to exploit an unsuspecting public by getting them to pay more for something than they really have to.

    A socialist government department of consumer awareness could alert the public of these and similar scams to keep the worst of capitalism from taking advantage of good people who worked hard for their money.

    I'm all for competition and coming up with ingenious new inventions and useful products. Socialism isn't going to do that. What it can do is protect us from shysters and legal 'scams.'

    Let's embrace socialism, and stop getting ripped off! This will force capitalism to be at it's true best. Doing what is really beneficial to society, instead of simply (and lazily) looking for easy money, ways to rip people off, and generally just trying extract as many dollars out of the general public as possible, whether true value is delivered or not, to be gathered together for the richest previous holders of vast wealth.

    The last thing we really want is a society where wealth inequality grows ever more extreme. But that's what we've got. And that big money doesn't want you to know how you're getting ripped off.

    The true measure of a country is not how wealthy the richest are, but how well that country treats the least advantaged members of society.

    The richer the richest get, the more taxes they need to be paying to support the least advantaged. And that is just pure logic.

    We don't have to abandon capitalism to get smart and stop wasting money.

    Remember: Benjamin Franklin was right. A penny saved is a penny earned.

    The only difference is these days it is a dollar. LOTS of them.

    Capitalism will use all it's power to try to get your money out of your hands. It's time we use all OUR collective power to keep the greedy side of capitalism at bay. We need use socialism to force capitalism to stay focused on creating useful new products and ways to do things that truly help people.

    That's a win/win for America.

    Because making America greater doesn't always mean making the rich richer.

    We all need to consider how socialism can help capitalism provide better healthcare, too.

    That's one of the biggest ways we are getting ripped off.
    You realize socialism is immoral right? With capitalism one is required to but anything. It requires voluntary participation between 2 socialism does not. That alone make a it the most horrible system ever devised. You are intent on creating class warfare. That's about as Marxist as you can get. You have no sense whatsoever.

  8. #38 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    29,740
    Thanks
    2,748
    Thanked 10,875 Times in 8,272 Posts
    Groans
    41
    Groaned 594 Times in 590 Posts
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    My favorite short list of American socialism are:

    Public libraries
    NASA-space program
    Public universities
    Medicare
    Green Bay Packers
    Libraries need not be run by govt money.
    Space X is a huge fuck you to NASA
    Public universities are indoctrination centers
    If I could have kept every dollar stolen from,me for entitlement programs and invested it myself I'd have retired 10 years ago.
    If that's true about the packers then McDonald's is socialism.

    What morons you people are.

  9. #39 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    57,788
    Thanks
    35,476
    Thanked 50,287 Times in 27,095 Posts
    Groans
    22
    Groaned 2,975 Times in 2,692 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle_Eye View Post
    Nice try but,

    Democratic Socialists have presented Denmark as the elusive nation where socialism has been successful, and thus a model for the policies they would implement in the United States. Bernie Sanders regularly invoked Denmark during the 2016 presidential campaign, and Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez reassured 60 Minutes viewers that her version of democratic socialism would veer more toward Denmark than Venezuela. Just weeks ago a free-market think tank in Denmark, the Center for Political Studies (CEPOS), issued a 20-page report telling Americans that 1) Denmark is not a socialist nation; and 2) statist policies have still caused significant economic harm.

    Denmark is not socialist

    The 20-page report notes that, by some measures, Denmark and the Nordic “socialist” countries have more economic freedom than the United States:
    https://blog.acton.org/archives/1058...0aAmdgEALw_wcB

    You lefties always leave out the capitalist part of their economies.

    BTW
    There are only three true socialist countries: North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela. All of which are total disasters.
    Explain why Republican politicians and conservative message boarders have spent years saying Europe is socialist.

    What countries were they talking about, if Denmark is supposedly not included as socialist?

    Leading Republicans Refer to Western Europe as "Socialists"
    Lately it seems that not a day goes by without a Republican presidential candidate portraying Europe as a socialist nightmare. Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum paint a picture of the Old World as unfree, strangulated by bureaucratic and inefficient welfare systems, and unable to reform and modernize. To these Republicans, Europe seems to be the antipode to everything America is meant to be.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.310f3f267a8a

    Prominent Republicans Call Western Europe "Socialist"
    Newt Gingrich has constantly accused the president of being a "European Socialist", often adding in a reference to an all-but-forgotten community activist from Chicago, who died in 1972, but whose Democratic-leaning writings are thought to have influenced the current president

    "I am for the Declaration of Independence; he is for the writing of Saul Alinsky. I am for the Constitution; he is for European socialism," Mr Gingrich told voters in Florida last week.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16583813

    Bill O'Reilly noted rightwing blowhard: Western Europe is basically socialist
    "I received a letter from Rhonda Hallett who lives in Jacksonville, North Carolina asking me to define Bernie's doctrine of Democratic socialism. Ok. That's basically what some countries in western Europe have, a political system that limits personal income through taxation in return for cradle to grave payouts from the governments. That's the trade."
    http://nation.foxnews.com/2016/02/14...atic-socialism

    Mike Pence is on record referring to western Europe as "socialist".
    when Representative Mike Pence, Republican of Indiana, denounced “European-style socialism,” in his speech at the conference on Thursday, the jeers from the crowd did not exactly signal an openness to debate it on the merits.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/w...leibovich.html

    European socialism taking root in US, Fox News's Stuart Varney says
    https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics...us-varney-says

    Rudy Giuliani Claims Europe is Socialist
    In a preview of his Republican National Convention speech, Rudy Giuliani insisted that the United States does not “have to be a socialist country like Europe.”
    https://www.rawstory.com/2020/08/rud...ke-europe/amp/

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Cypress For This Post:

    PoliTalker (09-26-2020)

  11. #40 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    29,740
    Thanks
    2,748
    Thanked 10,875 Times in 8,272 Posts
    Groans
    41
    Groaned 594 Times in 590 Posts
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Explain why Republican politicians and conservative message boarders have spent years saying Europe is socialist.

    What countries were they talking about, if Denmark is supposedly not included as socialist?
    In 2915 Danish prime minister Lars Rasmussen said, "Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy". Fucking get it idiot. It doesn't matter what the fuck any of those people claim.

    The difference is that EVERYFUCKINGBODY in Sweden and Denmark pays taxes. More than half the people in the US don't pay federal taxes. In Sweden and Denmark they have a consumption tax. You fucking morons would never go for that so shut the fuck up.

  12. #41 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    71,685
    Thanks
    6,597
    Thanked 12,131 Times in 9,660 Posts
    Groans
    14
    Groaned 504 Times in 477 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    The second you get caught it's off to the gulag for you. The government hates competition...
    politalker is a loon.

  13. #42 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    34,430
    Thanks
    23,941
    Thanked 19,095 Times in 13,072 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 5,908 Times in 5,169 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Hello T. A. Gardner,

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    So do Socialists. Propaganda keeps them in power.
    Maybe socialist dictators do that, but we don't see that in Norway or numerous other countries that have a mix of capitalism and socialism. The quality of our government depends on the active engagement of a well-informed populace. What we need to do is educate everyone better and impart upon them the importance of being well-informed and monitoring our government. Our government works for us. We are the boss. We need to do our job. Any government failure is a failure of We, The People, to do our job.

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Or, the government would rip you off instead.
    Why would a government of the people, by the people, and for the people, rip off the people? That makes no sense. The government has no goal of extracting as much wealth as possible from unsuspecting citizens to be gathered into the hands of a few very rich people. That's what corrupt people do. If we want our government to perform better, then we have to do a better job of routing out corruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    All of the above can and does happen in a Socialist society. The government can lie to you with impunity. At least in a Capitalist society today, there are watchdogs both in government and society that call out false advertising by private companies. With the government there is none.
    There are watchdogs in government, as you said. Of course with government we have that. Just listen to yourself. We are already a capitalist/socialist society. If our government is doing nefarious things we have the pathway to correct that. It is an ongoing job. There is no reason to make up false narratives that we have to chose between capitalism or socialism. That's BS propaganda.

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    The government can even imprison those that question what they say. That happens all the time in Socialist societies.
    That's why we have our Constitution with checks and balances. Sure, it's not perfect but nothing is. The best we can do is to have our Constitution, trust it, and protect it. That will prevent us from becoming the socialist dictatorship you are afraid of.

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    For example, in France a lot of bad news goes unreported simply because the government wants it unreported.
    That is France's problem, not ours. It proves nothing. France has a big advantage over America. In America, people fear the government. In France, the government fears the people.

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    The CPSC (Consumer Product Safety Commission) cuts both ways. They often shove an excess of safety down our throats because they can.
    When government goes awry it is because of corruption and bad leadership. The citizens need to do more monitoring of government to prevent that.

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Same thing. They may be a boon to some, to others they're just another bureaucracy getting in the way.

    The CFPB is a boon to those who get ripped off. It gets in the way of the oligarchs who are profiting from the rip-offs.

    The only difference between a Capitalist society and a Socialist society is who's doing the ripping off. In the former it's private companies and individuals subject to getting caught and prosecuted by government. In the latter it's government who isn't beholden to anyone and isn't libel for anything they do. A perfect example of this in action is the Gold King mine disaster.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_G...te_water_spill

    If a private corporation did that, they'd be held libel for billions in clean up and restitution. But because it was the EPA running the show they washed their hands of all liability and told those harmed by their actions, "Too bad. We're the government and we're not libel for anything we do..."
    Well that's a pretty big stretch to try to claim that is typical of the government. It is more typical of a government led by Trump.

    There is a lot more to that story than you're presenting. Capitalism caused a big mess and walked away. The river was already devoid of fish when the government began to try to clean it up. A for-profit company the government hired made a mistake and caused a spill of waste water which had accumulated after decades of capitalist operations. The government took the position that it was responsible, and began the process of deciding to what extent. The site could have been covered as a superfund site, and thus be able to help out locals affected, but locals initially fought that. The locals were afraid such a classification would harm tourism, basically one of the only things to bring wealth into the community that capitalism walked away from when the easy profits were done. After it became big news, they accepted the classification. That meant there could be compensation.

    The resultant lawsuits have dragged on until Trump's EPA director was installed. Now, the EPA under Trump wants to dismiss all responsibility and not pay. Is anyone surprised.

    And all of this has nothing to do with the fallacy that we have to choose between a capitalist government and a socialist one. We do not. We will never have to make that choice. We do not have a for-profit government. Our tax levels do not even pay for the government. Our government is supposed to serve the people. Wherever that has been mismanaged the culprit is always greedy capitalists and corruption.
    Last edited by PoliTalker; 09-26-2020 at 10:28 AM.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

  14. #43 | Top
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Hooterville by the sea
    Posts
    23,264
    Thanks
    6,282
    Thanked 16,527 Times in 11,565 Posts
    Groans
    1,236
    Groaned 513 Times in 483 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Explain why Republican politicians and conservative message boarders have spent years saying Europe is socialist.

    What countries were they talking about, if Denmark is supposedly not included as socialist?
    I don't know about you but I'm not a mind reader! May I remind you, you lefties you included have held up Europe as a socialist utopia for years! How about you answering your own question and while your at it prove me wrong.

  15. #44 | Top
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Central New Jersey
    Posts
    23,253
    Thanks
    13,544
    Thanked 12,185 Times in 7,629 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 1,051 Times in 998 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakuda View Post
    You realize socialism is immoral right? With capitalism one is required to but anything. It requires voluntary participation between 2 socialism does not. That alone make a it the most horrible system ever devised. You are intent on creating class warfare. That's about as Marxist as you can get. You have no sense whatsoever.
    American conservatism is immoral. One of the most immoral political position ever. And it continues its immoral path because it is peopled by morons.
    ON HIS WORST DAY, JOE BIDEN IS A BETTER PRESIDENT THAN TRUMP WAS ON HIS BEST DAY!

  16. #45 | Top
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    20,718
    Thanks
    1,054
    Thanked 5,660 Times in 4,439 Posts
    Groans
    296
    Groaned 184 Times in 180 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    My favorite short list of American socialism are:

    Public libraries
    NASA-space program
    Public universities
    Medicare
    Green Bay Packers
    Those are government services, not socialism. Socialism is public ownership of the means of production and distribution (oil companies, ship building, utilities, manufacturing)

    Medicare is not socialism because it involves an entire system of privately owned and operated hospitals, doctors, nurses, medical supply manufacturers, drug companies, insurance companies. NASA primarily operates by private companies.

    If a government owned business manufactures tire wipes and charcoal starter and you buy it are you being ripped off by socialism? Or, are you just a dumb consumer?

    The U. S. already has the Office of Consumer Affairs, Federal Trade Commission, U. S. Product Safety Commission, Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, National Highway Safety Administration and consumer protection offices in every state. If these "socialist" agencies aren't protecting us from tire wipes then more agencies will not do so.

    China manufactures both tire wipes and charcoal starter.

Similar Threads

  1. What Caused This?! Capitalism... It was always Capitalism
    By Cinnabar in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-28-2020, 12:37 PM
  2. the gift goes two ways
    By evince in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: 12-08-2019, 11:37 AM
  3. 4 Creeping Ways Capitalism Is Killing Us
    By signalmankenneth in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-11-2013, 03:59 PM
  4. Five Ways Capitalism Is Ripping Off the American People
    By signalmankenneth in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-30-2013, 06:08 PM
  5. 10 ways to get the most pay out of your job
    By NewsBoy in forum Off Topic Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-19-2006, 10:45 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •