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Thread: Likely RBG replacement Amy Barrett says NON-VIOLENT felons should not lose gun rights

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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonsprat22 View Post
    I did not lie about you being a racist.
    Who isn't a racist?

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    Quote Originally Posted by coldjoint View Post
    Who isn't a racist?
    fuck you

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    Really, then why do you have to have a permit to have a parade? Why can’t shout fire in a crowded theater? How come a newspaper can’t print top military secrets? Why aren’t prayers recited in public schools? etc., etc., etc. You can’t be that naive
    because most people, especially you, are terrified of the freedom of others. then you let yourself be deluded by the 'benevolent' government that they are to protect you and the only way to do that is for you to surrender your rights and let the government turn them in to permissions and privileges that require permits and licenses. That doesn't mean that government has the power to 'regulate' rights because that would mean that you have no rights, period. just because YOU are a braindead coward who needs the government to tell you what the constitution means, doesn't mean we all do.

    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    And the abstract concept “Freedom” has been reduced to a bumper sticker, just cause someone can’t smoke a cigarette in public buildings is hardly what most wouldn’t call an infringement on their freedom
    YOU might accept your servitude because it makes you feel safer, I do not. rights are absolute, or they are not rights, just permissions.
    A sad commentary on we, as a people, and our viewpoint of our freedom can be summed up like this. We have liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, yet those very people look at Constitutionalists as radical and extreme.................so those liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans must believe that the constitution is radical and extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Text Drivers are Killers View Post
    Pretty hard to argue with her on that. Should people permanently lose a constitutional right because they cheated on their taxes or used an illegal drug?
    I agree. Felons losing their gun rights automatically and permanently has created a huge--HUGE--number of cases where a felon has been sent to prison for double digit time simply by the presence of a firearm in some situation. They could be a another person's home and a firearm is present. That's sufficient to get them charged with felon in possession of a firearm should something occur with law enforcement, however minor.
    Same thing with being in a vehicle they don't own and are not driving.

    While the government has a legitimate interest in keeping firearms away from those that have demonstrated a propensity to use them in crimes, someone busted for selling marijuana as a felony and nothing more, really doesn't pose a threat to anyone for owning a firearm afterwards. That's but one example. Another is someone who say was arrested for a non-violent felony at 19 and is now 49 and has been arrested since probably isn't much if any threat to anyone if they own a gun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    But never in the numbers we are seeing today,
    True. Every time you idiots go out to ban guns, gun sales take off. They are the highest rate ever, thanks to the Democrats defunding the police. People are realizing they are responsible for their own personal defense now more than ever.
    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    nor the consequences as the number of mass shootings we’ve seen in the last decade
    Okay. Let's talk about the mass shootings.

    1) There has never been a mass shooting in a shooting range. They take place in 'gun free' zones.
    2) Armed looters trying to rob a gun store got shot and killed.
    3) High school kids that shot their schoolmates were on psychoactive drugs, or were withdrawing from them. The most popular weapon of choice of the high school mass shooter was a .22 pistol, followed by a 9mm pistol, followed by a .22 rifle.
    4) A few managed to afford or steal an AR-15 style rifle. This is essentially semiautomatic rifle that is chambered for a .223 round. Not much different from a .22 rifle except with longer range and a better set of accessories for it.
    5) The single case of the Las Vegas shooter was a failure of casino security as much as anything else. MGM lost that lawsuit against them and is required to pay out millions to the victims. My own next door neighbor was at that rock concert. He never carried a gun before. He carries one now!
    6) Out of 1.45 billion high schools in the United States, only a dozen or so are involved in a mass shooting event.
    7) Out of some 400 million guns in the United States, only a dozen or so became involved in a mass shooting. That means hundreds of millions of those guns out there were NOT involved in a mass shooting.

    You are trying to blame 300 million people for the actions of a few. That's bigotry dude.

    Can something be done about the mass shootings? Certainly. I suggest:
    1) Get rid of the 'gun free' zones. They obviously don't work.
    2) Get rid of laws restricting or infringing ownership of guns. They obviously don't work, and only unconstitutionally punish those that are not shooting up schools, movie theaters, or rock concerts.
    3) Lose your paranoia. Guns are all around you, everywhere you go. Many people are carrying them concealed. People that are around you when you shop, when you drive, when you walk down the street. They won't shoot you unless you start some shit with them.
    4) For schools, provide classrooms with a metal solid core door (bulletproof) that can be locked by the instructor without the use of a key, and an egress easily usable without the use of special instructions or a key.
    5) In school hallways, install metal drop slat doors that can be trigger from the office, along with monitoring cameras in those hallways. A school shooter, deprived of his targets, will usually shoot himself. No school shooting event has lasted longer than ten minutes.
    6) Hold psychoquacks prescribing these psychoactive 'medicines' responsible for the damage they cause.
    7) Encourage teachers to get first aid training, including dealing with chest wounds, and provide them with the equipment and supplies necessary to do so. Dealing with a chest wound can be conducted by anyone trained in it using a simple device that is cheap and easily available. This will help no only in shootings, but in dealing with playground accidents, fights, etc.
    8) Allow teachers and staff to carry concealed without being forced to declare they are doing so, and as a matter of their own choice, as is the case in Utah. Again, get rid of the 'gun free' zones.
    9) Encourage the formation of high school gun clubs, like they used to have in high schools, to teach kids respect for the weapon and how to properly handle them. Schools can often work with local shooting ranges for facilities for this.
    10) Encourage the formation of fencing clubs, like they used to have in high schools, to teach kids respect for those weapons and how to properly handle them. These will also teach kids balance and coordination. Local fencing clubs can help schools set this up and conduct such clubs safely in school facilities.

    You fear the gun because you do not know it. You don't know what they can really can and cannot do, what kinds of weapons there are and their purpose. You cannot appreciate the skillit takes to shoot accurately and safely...skills that are easily taught, nor the challenge of learning to shoot well. You cannot appreciate the number of people out there near you carrying a gun at this moment. They are citizens like you. They have families, raising children, go shopping, care for their homes and cars, and are willing to protect that, even if rioters and arsonists show up and the police don't.

    This fear has a name. It is hoplophobia.
    "The atmosphere is among the factors that determines the Earth's atmosphere." --ZenMode
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonsprat22 View Post
    I did not lie about you being a racist.
    I am not a racist. You have lost all context now. Done here.
    "The atmosphere is among the factors that determines the Earth's atmosphere." --ZenMode
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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Another is someone who say was arrested for a non-violent felony at 19 and is now 49 and has been arrested since probably isn't much if any threat to anyone if they own a gun.
    One of the polling stations disrupted by right wing terrorists lately had one of the gun toting lunatics complain he was not allowed to vote because he had a criminal record. The obvious question is why is he allowed to carry a gun then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    because most people, especially you, are terrified of the freedom of others. then you let yourself be deluded by the 'benevolent' government that they are to protect you and the only way to do that is for you to surrender your rights and let the government turn them in to permissions and privileges that require permits and licenses. That doesn't mean that government has the power to 'regulate' rights because that would mean that you have no rights, period. just because YOU are a braindead coward who needs the government to tell you what the constitution means, doesn't mean we all do.



    YOU might accept your servitude because it makes you feel safer, I do not. rights are absolute, or they are not rights, just permissions.
    Nothing personal, but little of that makes sense, lot of generalizations, and validation of what I said, some have reduced the abstract concept of freedom to a bumper sticker, cause you feel you can’t do anything you want when you want and when you can’t it is taking away freedom

    I’d cite Locke, but I know you would ignore it, so let’s go with one of your icons, President Reagan - “Law and Freedom must be invisible partners, for without Law there can be no Freedom”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    One of the polling stations disrupted by right wing terrorists lately had one of the gun toting lunatics complain he was not allowed to vote because he had a criminal record. The obvious question is why is he allowed to carry a gun then?
    He probably wasn't allowed to. Although, voting rights vary state to state. Some bar felons from voting for lifetime. Others restore that right after they've completed their full sentence (including any parole etc.). Gun rights for state charges also vary, as opposed to federal charges--which is what is being discussed here. Some states will restore gun rights again after completion of their sentence, others won't.

    So, we would need to know what his charges and convictions were along with which state he was in at the time to answer that properly.

    Oh, just curious, you sure he wasn't a New Black Panther party member? They like to intimidate voters and do so quite frequently...

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    Really? You want to play the game with semantics?
    No. But YOU do. Semantics fallacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    Must be you didn’t see “constitutional” right, and as far as your supposed “absolute” rights, no where is it written one man can govern over another, as Locke would say we are all born into “perfect freedom,” so why does anyone in your argument even follow any governmental entity. It is stupid game of words
    Semantics fallacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    Also never said anything was banned,
    You inferred it. Semantics fallacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    guess you missed that also, regulate was the exact word I used,
    And inferring banning or restricting. Semantics fallacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    and the prefatory clause you employed in your next argument has never been defined,
    Yes it was. By you and by the gun restrictions you support.
    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    no SCOTUS ever could get beyond it, which is why gun laws were seldom overturned, well, until
    Scalia, he just skipped over it, your definition of it is just your definition of it and nothing more
    The Supreme Court does not have the authority to change the Constitution of the United States.
    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    And State laws are not unconstitutional, proven by the mere fact we have them, and have had them for over two hundred years
    Void argument fallacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    Now what fallacy will be deflected with now?
    No argument presented. Void arguments. Semantics fallacies. Denial of the Constitution of the United States. Denial of fundamental rights. Conflation of constitution as rights. Denial of republic in favor of fascism by oligarchy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    Nothing personal, but little of that makes sense, lot of generalizations, and validation of what I said, some have reduced the abstract concept of freedom to a bumper sticker, cause you feel you can’t do anything you want when you want and when you can’t it is taking away freedom

    I’d cite Locke, but I know you would ignore it, so let’s go with one of your icons, President Reagan - “Law and Freedom must be invisible partners, for without Law there can be no Freedom”
    fuck that anti constitutionalist fucker. no hero of mine. and you can call your cowardice and fear a generalization, whatever. it's still the truth. you NEED the freedom of others to be denied and regulated because they scare the shit out of you.
    A sad commentary on we, as a people, and our viewpoint of our freedom can be summed up like this. We have liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, yet those very people look at Constitutionalists as radical and extreme.................so those liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans must believe that the constitution is radical and extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    Really, then why do you have to have a permit to have a parade?
    You don't, unless you hold the parade on public streets you are going to close to have the parade. Usually such jurisdictions require crowd control elements to be put in place as well. Sensible. It keeps everyone safe to enjoy the parade and properly routes traffic around it.
    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    Why can’t shout fire in a crowded theater?
    You can.
    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    How come a newspaper can’t print top military secrets?
    It can.
    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    Why aren’t prayers recited in public schools?
    They are.
    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    etc., etc., etc. You can’t be that naive
    It is YOU that is naive. Inversion fallacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    And the abstract concept “Freedom” has been reduced to a bumper sticker,
    Nah. You just think you are a prisoner. You actually are...of your own fears.
    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    just cause someone can’t smoke a cigarette in public buildings is hardly what most wouldn’t call an infringement on their freedom
    You can smoke a cigarette in a public building. There are even some businesses set up to do just that.
    "The atmosphere is among the factors that determines the Earth's atmosphere." --ZenMode
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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    True. Every time you idiots go out to ban guns, gun sales take off. They are the highest rate ever, thanks to the Democrats defunding the police. People are realizing they are responsible for their own personal defense now more than ever.

    Okay. Let's talk about the mass shootings.

    1) There has never been a mass shooting in a shooting range. They take place in 'gun free' zones.
    2) Armed looters trying to rob a gun store got shot and killed.
    3) High school kids that shot their schoolmates were on psychoactive drugs, or were withdrawing from them. The most popular weapon of choice of the high school mass shooter was a .22 pistol, followed by a 9mm pistol, followed by a .22 rifle.
    4) A few managed to afford or steal an AR-15 style rifle. This is essentially semiautomatic rifle that is chambered for a .223 round. Not much different from a .22 rifle except with longer range and a better set of accessories for it.
    5) The single case of the Las Vegas shooter was a failure of casino security as much as anything else. MGM lost that lawsuit against them and is required to pay out millions to the victims. My own next door neighbor was at that rock concert. He never carried a gun before. He carries one now!
    6) Out of 1.45 billion high schools in the United States, only a dozen or so are involved in a mass shooting event.
    7) Out of some 400 million guns in the United States, only a dozen or so became involved in a mass shooting. That means hundreds of millions of those guns out there were NOT involved in a mass shooting.

    You are trying to blame 300 million people for the actions of a few. That's bigotry dude.

    Can something be done about the mass shootings? Certainly. I suggest:
    1) Get rid of the 'gun free' zones. They obviously don't work.
    2) Get rid of laws restricting or infringing ownership of guns. They obviously don't work, and only unconstitutionally punish those that are not shooting up schools, movie theaters, or rock concerts.
    3) Lose your paranoia. Guns are all around you, everywhere you go. Many people are carrying them concealed. People that are around you when you shop, when you drive, when you walk down the street. They won't shoot you unless you start some shit with them.
    4) For schools, provide classrooms with a metal solid core door (bulletproof) that can be locked by the instructor without the use of a key, and an egress easily usable without the use of special instructions or a key.
    5) In school hallways, install metal drop slat doors that can be trigger from the office, along with monitoring cameras in those hallways. A school shooter, deprived of his targets, will usually shoot himself. No school shooting event has lasted longer than ten minutes.
    6) Hold psychoquacks prescribing these psychoactive 'medicines' responsible for the damage they cause.
    7) Encourage teachers to get first aid training, including dealing with chest wounds, and provide them with the equipment and supplies necessary to do so. Dealing with a chest wound can be conducted by anyone trained in it using a simple device that is cheap and easily available. This will help no only in shootings, but in dealing with playground accidents, fights, etc.
    8) Allow teachers and staff to carry concealed without being forced to declare they are doing so, and as a matter of their own choice, as is the case in Utah. Again, get rid of the 'gun free' zones.
    9) Encourage the formation of high school gun clubs, like they used to have in high schools, to teach kids respect for the weapon and how to properly handle them. Schools can often work with local shooting ranges for facilities for this.
    10) Encourage the formation of fencing clubs, like they used to have in high schools, to teach kids respect for those weapons and how to properly handle them. These will also teach kids balance and coordination. Local fencing clubs can help schools set this up and conduct such clubs safely in school facilities.

    You fear the gun because you do not know it. You don't know what they can really can and cannot do, what kinds of weapons there are and their purpose. You cannot appreciate the skillit takes to shoot accurately and safely...skills that are easily taught, nor the challenge of learning to shoot well. You cannot appreciate the number of people out there near you carrying a gun at this moment. They are citizens like you. They have families, raising children, go shopping, care for their homes and cars, and are willing to protect that, even if rioters and arsonists show up and the police don't.

    This fear has a name. It is hoplophobia.
    Oh, I got it, you couldn’t find a fallacy out of your list of fallacies to fit my exchange, so instead we are switching the content all together responding to phrases rather than concepts. Humorous

    I’ll play the game

    No, because the gun manufacturers convinced the gullible that Obama was going to take away all the guns

    Gun free zones don’t work cause many neighboring States are gun open States, easy example, Indiana is a fifteen minute ride from Chicago, and given gun violence is less in States with gun restrictions than those with little regulations proves less guns help save lives

    Guns aren’t all around me, don’t live in a Red State, nor did I or most of my acquaintances grow up in a gun culture

    As far as schools, there are three variables found in all mass shootings, the shooter, the target, aka schools, and the weapon. No one knows who the next shooter will be, and you can defend all the targets you want as the recommendations you have for schools, but no one knows what the next target will be, there are too many, but the one variable you can control is the gun

    And I know guns, qualified on five of them, “expert” on the M16, and carried one for eighteen months

    Do I get the fallacy now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    No. But YOU do. Semantics fallacy.

    Semantics fallacy.

    You inferred it. Semantics fallacy.

    And inferring banning or restricting. Semantics fallacy.

    Yes it was. By you and by the gun restrictions you support.

    The Supreme Court does not have the authority to change the Constitution of the United States.

    Void argument fallacy.


    No argument presented. Void arguments. Semantics fallacies. Denial of the Constitution of the United States. Denial of fundamental rights. Conflation of constitution as rights. Denial of republic in favor of fascism by oligarchy.
    Alright that is idiocy

    I’ll respond accordingly

    Wrong

    Wrong

    Wrong

    No it wasn’t

    They aren’t

    Wrong

    And wrong again

    Now you going to break down article and punctuation

    You’re done, next

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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonsprat22 View Post
    fuck you
    You can't name anyone? I didn't think you could.

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