Trump ABC town hall pulls in fewer viewers than 'America's Got Talent,' NBA, Fox News

**Charoite** · 09-18-2020, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle

This is America, Brit. No peasants here as in Merry Ol' England.

If you understood the Constitution, you'd understand 1) More people voted against Hillary than for her and 2) she lost because the United States is against the tyranny of a single, highly populated state dictating to the other 49 states.

No, Trump lost the popular vote by the largest of margins. More of these nonsensical electorals voted for Trump, not people. Seriously they just don't add up in their numbers properly. Oh, and we always do end up being decided by single states anyway due to the peculiar numbers. If we want to keep this electoral system the numbers really need addressing. They haven't been changed to reflect current representation values.

**Doc Dutch** · 09-18-2020, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Well, Biden was no big deal until he reached far out for a vice-presidential candidate like McCain did. It has a bit of the same effect for some. Biden was already as close as you get to being president without being it. And he is actually versed in political matters. He won't be like Trump thinking he can do fascist things and have to be reminded he's not an Emperor.

I have no problem with Biden or his VP pick. It's Schumer and Pelosi that bother me the most. Despite all the crap about Trump, the President's power is limited by Congress in many ways, mainly per the Constitution and the funding. Most of the bullshit Trump has done and gotten away with is directly because Congress failed in their duties. IMO, most people focus upon the President because applauding or blaming 435 people, most of which none of us voted for, is a lot more difficult.

**Doc Dutch** · 09-18-2020, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Crocodile

No, Trump lost the popular vote by the largest of margins. More of these nonsensical electorals voted for Trump, not people. Seriously they just don't add up in their numbers properly. Oh, and we always do end up being decided by single states anyway due to the peculiar numbers. If we want to keep this electoral system the numbers really need addressing. They haven't been changed to reflect current representation values.

No? Are you denying that more people voted against Hillary than for her?

There are pros and cons about the Electoral College; mostly pros. The worst aspect of a purely popular vote is Tyranny of the Majority. Anyone who can't see the dangers and problems of a pure democracy is not thinking it through.

Yesterday on CNN I saw an interview arguing as you are; Bad, bad Electoral College. The main point was that candidates play electoral math and only focus upon swing states not their base or states they are certain to lose. That point was correct. What they failed to point out in the interview was what the focus would be if the EC were eliminated: All politicians would become Populists like Trump and pander to the majority, not doing what is in the best interests of "We, the People".

Example; what is to stop California from sucking Nevada, Arizona and even most of Oregon dry of water with a populist Federal government? Trump would agree with you on eliminating the EC because you'd be doing the heavy lifting for him. All he has to do is pander to the fears of the Left as he's doing with the Right. Easy switch for a lying narcissist. Be careful what you ask for, sir.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-trump/578878/
What Populists Do to Democracies
According to our research, populist governments have deepened corruption, eroded individual rights, and inflicted serious damage on democratic institutions.

**Charoite** · 09-18-2020, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle

No? Are you denying that more people voted against Hillary than for her?

There are pros and cons about the Electoral College; mostly pros. The worst aspect of a purely popular vote is Tyranny of the Majority. Anyone who can't see the dangers and problems of a pure democracy is not thinking it through.

Yesterday on CNN I saw an interview arguing as you are; Bad, bad Electoral College. The main point was that candidates play electoral math and only focus upon swing states not their base or states they are certain to lose. That point was correct. What they failed to point out in the interview was what the focus would be if the EC were eliminated: All politicians would become Populists like Trump and pander to the majority, not doing what is in the best interests of "We, the People".

Example; what is to stop California from sucking Nevada, Arizona and even most of Oregon dry of water with a populist Federal government? Trump would agree with you on eliminating the EC because you'd be doing the heavy lifting for him. All he has to do is pander to the fears of the Left as he's doing with the Right. Easy switch for a lying narcissist. Be careful what you ask for, sir.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-trump/578878/
What Populists Do to Democracies
According to our research, populist governments have deepened corruption, eroded individual rights, and inflicted serious damage on democratic institutions.

The electoral college isn't a basis of people numbers even in the most inane sense, it's a basis of select numbers up for a win. Whoever wins a state automatically makes all the votes of the loser just discarded fodder with no representation even if they were near equal in votes. Saying more voted against Hillary when she had 3 million more votes is a falsehood. Trump won by electoral flop not by getting more votes. The electoral system does the very thing it is supposedly supposed to prevent and disenfranchises huge swathes of voters. Those excess votes of the loser has to count for something or this whole system equates little more than a sham. You want to keep the electoral system than it can't disenfranchise voters like that. It defies all a vote serves.

***leaningright*** · 09-18-2020, 12:31 PM

I skipped to the end without reading any comments to write ...

Maybe because a lot of us are going to vote for Trump no matter what he might say at a town hall. I also figure a lot plan to vote for the other pair. Either way, a significant portion of society doesn’t care to tune into the same ol’ same ol’ at this point.

**Doc Dutch** · 09-18-2020, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Crocodile

The electoral college isn't a basis of people numbers even in the most inane sense, it's a basis of select numbers up for a win. Whoever wins a state automatically makes all the votes of the loser just discarded fodder with no representation even if they were near equal in votes. Saying more voted against Hillary when she had 3 million more votes is a falsehood. Trump won by electoral flop not by getting more votes. The electoral system does the very thing it is supposedly supposed to prevent and disenfranchises huge swathes of voters. Those excess votes of the loser has to count for something or this whole system equates little more than a sham. You want to keep the electoral system than it can't disenfranchise voters like that. It defies all a vote serves.

Are you saying the Founders were inane? Why do you think they chose such a system?

Do you know it's up to each state to allocate their own electoral votes?

Care to make a small wager? Say $10 donation to the forum in the winner's name that I'm correct?

As for your solution that a popular vote is better than the EC, I disagree for aforementioned reasons.

**Bill** · 09-18-2020, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by guno

Overall, the Tuesday evening event with the president from Philadelphia, moderated by ABC chief anchor George Stephanopoulos, drew 3.967 million total viewers. "America's Got Talent" topped all programming that night with 5.7 million people tuning in.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/5...talent-nba-fox