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Thread: Holocaust denial poll results

  1. #181 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    If that's the case, then why is American (((media and academia))) so obsessed with the Holocaust? That didn't happen in America, it happened in Europe.
    It happened to a minority religion/culture with immense political and cultural influence in the US, obviously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    Now you're becoming insulting. You may, or may not, realize that the Jewish Lobby, when its narrative is challenged, automatically resorts to attacking the motives of its challenger- followed by character assassination attempts.
    I've provided you with adequate and authoritative evidence that the Jewish component of the minority groups selected by the Nazis for extermination was NOT ' special ' in the program and you've repeatedly refused to accept that. Fine. The thread has served to make my point . The Nazis murdered up to 14 million people other than 6 million Jews.
    I have been to the U.S. Holocaust museum. Twice. As an educational experience, I recommend anyone visiting D.C. visit it.

    The U.S. National Holocaust museum openly and transparently acknowledges and documents Nazi atrocities against Romani and other "undesirables".

    Genocide of the European Sinti and Roma (“Gypsies”)
    Source: U.S. National Holocaust Museum


    Introduction
    Between 1933 and 1945 Sinti and Roma (“Gypsies”) suffered greatly as victims of Nazi persecution and genocide. Building on long-held prejudices, the Nazi regime viewed Gypsies both as "asocials" (outside “normal” society) and as racial "inferiors" believed to threaten the biological purity and strength of the “superior Aryan” race. During World War II, the Nazis and their collaborators killed tens of thousands of Sinti and Roma men, women, and children across German-occupied Europe.

    https://www.ushmm.org/collections/bi...d-roma-gypsies

    https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/conte...sies-1939-1945

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    Romani Genocide

    The Romani genocide or the Romani Holocaust—also known as the Porajmos (Romani pronunciation: IPA: [pʰoɽajˈmos], meaning "the Devouring"), the Pharrajimos ("Cutting up", "Fragmentation", "Destruction"), and the Samudaripen ("Mass killing")—was the effort by Nazi Germany and its World War II allies to commit ethnic cleansing and eventually genocide against Europe's Romani people.[4]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_genocide


    Like the Jews, the Roma were chosen for total annihilation solely because of their race.

    Even though Jews are defined by religion, Hitler saw the Jewish people as a race that he believed needed to be annihilated. Likewise, the Roma were a nomadic people that were persecuted throughout history. Both groups were denied certain privileges in many European countries. The Germans believed both the Jews and Roma were racially inferior and degenerate and therefore worthless.

    The Roma were also moved into special areas set up by the Nazis and half a million of them – representing almost the entire Eastern European Roma population – was wiped out during the war.

    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...-the-holocaust
    Last edited by moon; 09-22-2020 at 06:54 AM.
    " First they came for the journalists...
    We don't know what happened after that . "

    Maria Ressa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    Romani Genocide

    The Romani genocide or the Romani Holocaust—also known as the Porajmos (Romani pronunciation: IPA: [pʰoɽajˈmos], meaning "the Devouring"), the Pharrajimos ("Cutting up", "Fragmentation", "Destruction"), and the Samudaripen ("Mass killing")—was the effort by Nazi Germany and its World War II allies to commit ethnic cleansing and eventually genocide against Europe's Romani people.[4]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_genocide
    Your link says best estimates are that several hundred thousand Romani were killed by Nazis, which is terrible and should be recognized and memorialized, as it is indeed at the U.S. National Holocaust Museum.

    When you get right down to it, the Nazis were probably ultimatelyresponsible for 20 to 40 million deaths, most of whom were Slavic peoples of the Soviet Union.

    The reason to hold the holocaust out as a poster child of a crime of humanity is because of the scale, nature, and single-mindedness with which a national policy of mass murder was pursued. I mean, even as the German armies were collapsing in the face of the relentless Red Army and western allies, the Nazis still continued to devote valuable military, strategic, and transportation resouces into hunting down Jews and other "undesirables", transporting them to death camps, and murdering them.

    Those were resources a rational military commander would have devoted to resisting the onslaught of the allied armies and air forces.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Cypress For This Post:

    moon (09-22-2020)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Penderyn View Post
    It happened to a minority religion/culture with immense political and cultural influence in the US, obviously.
    Exactly. And that shouldn't be considered a good reason. So who cares if Americans can't name a bunch of the Nazi camps?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Your link says best estimates are that several hundred thousand Romani were killed by Nazis, which is terrible and should be recognized and memorialized, as it is indeed at the U.S. National Holocaust Museum.

    When you get right down to it, the Nazis were probably ultimatelyresponsible for 20 to 40 million deaths, most of whom were Slavic peoples of the Soviet Union.

    The reason to hold the holocaust out as a poster child of a crime of humanity is because of the scale, nature, and single-mindedness with which a national policy of mass murder was pursued. I mean, even as the German armies were collapsing in the face of the relentless Red Army and western allies, the Nazis still continued to devote valuable military, strategic, and transportation resouces into hunting down Jews and other "undesirables", transporting them to death camps, and murdering them.

    Those were resources a rational military commander would have devoted to resisting the onslaught of the allied armies and air forces.
    Well put thanks.......
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Well put thanks.......
    You're thanking someone who 75 years after the fact is using words like "best estimate"?
    Don't be afraid to see what you see

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    Exactly. And that shouldn't be considered a good reason. So who cares if Americans can't name a bunch of the Nazi camps?
    Not me. I know enough about 'em for thousands, alas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    Exactly. And that shouldn't be considered a good reason. So who cares if Americans can't name a bunch of the Nazi camps?
    I personally am surprised that any educated person has never heard the word Aushwitz.

    Not the most important word to take away from a public education, but I always felt Aushwitz stood in as a metaphor, a visceral image, in the public consciousness about just how evil humans can become, and what needs to be prevented from ever happening again to any human beings

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I personally am surprised that any educated person has never heard the word Aushwitz.

    Not the most important word to take away from a public education, but I always felt Aushwitz stood in as a metaphor, a visceral image, in the public consciousness about just how evil humans can become, and what needs to be prevented from ever happening again to any human beings
    I always kinda thought so as well.............

    History is not a strong subject for most ppl but there are some facts ppl should know & not repeat!!
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    I always kinda thought so as well.............

    History is not a strong subject for most ppl but there are some facts ppl should know & not repeat!!
    Teaching history to me has never been about learning names and dates.

    Good history education should improve moral character and virtue.

    It is not just me who thinks that. Herodotus, Thucydides, and the Greeks thought the reason to learn history is to improve moral character.

    We obviously need to teach reading, writing, and arithmetic. But a liberal education needs to include a critical look at history and the human condition. Which includes a comprehensive look at human rights, genocide, crimes against humanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Teaching history to me has never been about learning names and dates.

    Good history education should improve moral character and virtue.

    It is not just me who thinks that. Herodotus, Thucydides, and the Greeks thought the reason to learn history is to improve moral character.

    We obviously need to teach reading, writing, and arithmetic. But a liberal education needs to include a critical look at history and the human condition. Which includes a comprehensive look at human rights, genocide, crimes against humanity.
    Same here, specific dates are often not that significant.......

    For me it is more about how things came about~leading up to today or some event, which leads forward~up to today..........
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    I wonder how many people know that the great majority of the death camps were liberated by the Russians ?
    " First they came for the journalists...
    We don't know what happened after that . "

    Maria Ressa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    I wonder how many people know that the great majority of the death camps were liberated by the Russians ?
    The death camps were pretty much all in Poland, so there was no chance of the western allies ever reaching them.
    The allies liberated many concentration camps (Dachau, et al ), which were terrifying enough, but those camps were not designed for mass murder by zyklon gas.

    The Nazis were taken aback by the speed and ferocity of the advance of the Red Army into Byelorussia and Poland, which probably prevented the Nazis from completing their objective of murdering the last remaining jews.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    The death camps were pretty much all in Poland, so there was no chance of the western allies ever reaching them.
    The allies liberated many concentration camps (Dachau, et al ), which were terrifying enough, but those camps were not designed for mass murder by zyklon gas.

    The Nazis were taken aback by the speed and ferocity of the advance of the Red Army into Byelorussia and Poland, which probably prevented the Nazis from completing their objective of murdering the last remaining jews.
    Jews ? Again you fail to mention everybody else that the Nazis agenda encompassed. Remember- UP TO 14 MILLION PEOPLE OTHER than Jews were exterminated by the Nazis. People that consistently ignore this should be reminded of it every time. The HOLOCAUST refers to ALL the victims. The Jewish tragedy is called the Shoah.
    " First they came for the journalists...
    We don't know what happened after that . "

    Maria Ressa.

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