Page 12 of 12 FirstFirst ... 289101112
Results 166 to 175 of 175

Thread: Do Campaign Finance Reforms Insulate Incumbents from Competition?

  1. #166 | Top
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    20,718
    Thanks
    1,054
    Thanked 5,657 Times in 4,437 Posts
    Groans
    296
    Groaned 184 Times in 180 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    Money is speech, even you agree when it is Unions supporting a candidate that it is so. Everything they do costs money, and the money they are spending is covered by the First Amendment because they use it to buy ads, etc. which is Free Speech...

    You can make laws that say you have to tell people who bought the ad, but you cannot make a law saying you can only say "this much" because money. The First Amendment applies...

    The people with less money get to assemble and spend the money of the assembly on ads, etc. (unions, PACs).
    Some people already have "more speech" than others. If Trump or Pelosi say something a lot more people will hear it than what I say and that has nothing to do with money.

  2. #167 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    85,117
    Thanks
    2,507
    Thanked 16,531 Times in 10,535 Posts
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 578 Times in 535 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Some people already have "more speech" than others. If Trump or Pelosi say something a lot more people will hear it than what I say and that has nothing to do with money.
    Or some jackwipe reporting on MSDNC has more "speech" than I do as well.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

  3. #168 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Dirty South
    Posts
    63,304
    Thanks
    6,234
    Thanked 13,408 Times in 10,038 Posts
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 2,947 Times in 2,728 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    This is what I said from the very beginning. Most of the studies find little or no relationship between legislative votes and campaign contributions.
    Because the influence from the contributions happens earlier in the process, just like what you quoted says.
    When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist


  4. #169 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Dirty South
    Posts
    63,304
    Thanks
    6,234
    Thanked 13,408 Times in 10,038 Posts
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 2,947 Times in 2,728 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    They don't spend 90% of their time. And that was not the issue. You said the legislative votes of members are determined by campaign contributions. Now you have backed off that claim by claiming "but not for AOC." Partisanship determines your facts.
    What those votes are actually on is determined by the influence of wealthy donors, just like what you quoted says.
    When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist


  5. #170 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Dirty South
    Posts
    63,304
    Thanks
    6,234
    Thanked 13,408 Times in 10,038 Posts
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 2,947 Times in 2,728 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    Money is speech.
    Then that means some people have more speech than others, and it also means there is no such thing as "free speech".
    When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist


  6. #171 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    85,117
    Thanks
    2,507
    Thanked 16,531 Times in 10,535 Posts
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 578 Times in 535 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LV426 View Post
    Then that means some people have more speech than others, and it also means there is no such thing as "free speech".
    That is nonsense. Literally. It's a non-sequitur, it doesn't mean what you say it means, it isn't about that, and like anybody else they can assemble and use their voice (First Amendment is more than Speech).
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

  7. #172 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Dirty South
    Posts
    63,304
    Thanks
    6,234
    Thanked 13,408 Times in 10,038 Posts
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 2,947 Times in 2,728 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    That is nonsense. Literally. It's a non-sequitur, it doesn't mean what you say it means, it isn't about that, and like anybody else they can assemble and use their voice (First Amendment is more than Speech).
    You're the one who says money is speech.

    So if that's the case, then it's not free speech because you've literally ascribed a dollar value to it.
    When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist


  8. #173 | Top
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    20,718
    Thanks
    1,054
    Thanked 5,657 Times in 4,437 Posts
    Groans
    296
    Groaned 184 Times in 180 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LV426 View Post
    What those votes are actually on is determined by the influence of wealthy donors, just like what you quoted says.
    According to your original claim, members are bribed by campaign contributions. How can AOC be spending her time on her constituents if she spent 90% of her time raising $12,483,912?

    Was she bribed by the $23,982 PAC contributions from from unions (78%) and ideological groups? According to you those unions determined how she voted because of their contributions.

  9. #174 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Dirty South
    Posts
    63,304
    Thanks
    6,234
    Thanked 13,408 Times in 10,038 Posts
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 2,947 Times in 2,728 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    According to your original claim, members are bribed by campaign contributions
    Which they were too, which was evidenced when Boehner handed out tobacco checks on the floor of the House to Republicans.

    It's possible both things can happen, Flash.


    How can AOC be spending her time on her constituents if she spent 90% of her time raising $12,483,912?
    Because she doesn't do "call time", she doesn't attend fundraisers, and -as I fucking quoted earlier on this thread- chose to appeal to her small donors via e-mails and social media.

    I literally posted and highlighted that for you right here, and you ignored it because all you do is act in bad faith simply because this is personal for you.

    It's impossible to have a reasonable debate with you because the only tactics you use are sophistry and bad faith. Exclusively. You never act in good faith because you simply don't know how.


    Was she bribed by the $23,982 PAC contributions from from unions (78%) and ideological groups?
    Where are you getting that number? Are you misreading that? Why do you never show your work?

    Here's her OpenSecrets page: https://www.opensecrets.org/members-...le=2020&type=C

    What are you talking about?
    When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist


  10. #175 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Dirty South
    Posts
    63,304
    Thanks
    6,234
    Thanked 13,408 Times in 10,038 Posts
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 2,947 Times in 2,728 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Some people already have "more speech" than others. If Trump or Pelosi say something a lot more people will hear it than what I say and that has nothing to do with money.
    Both Trump and Pelosi are elected representatives. So it's their job to go out and say things.

    Flash doesn't really get the whole democracy thing....
    When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist


Similar Threads

  1. No Campaign Finance Violations by Trump
    By hvilleherb in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 12-20-2018, 04:27 PM
  2. Day 8 - Still no indictment for campaign finance violations
    By canceled.2021.2 in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-29-2018, 07:15 AM
  3. APP - Democrat commits campaign finance crimes
    By canceled.2021.1 in forum Above Plain Politics Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-10-2018, 08:22 PM
  4. Obama Campaign In Finance Trouble
    By RockX in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-02-2008, 03:42 PM
  5. Obama re:Campaign Finance
    By Blackflag in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 06-20-2008, 11:07 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •