Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 148

Thread: Calif is on fire again~the new normal-what needs to be done to prevent this??

  1. #16 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    State of Bliss
    Posts
    31,009
    Thanks
    7,095
    Thanked 5,196 Times in 3,829 Posts
    Groans
    433
    Groaned 261 Times in 257 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Agreed. California's oppressive environmental and building code rules have pushed the state to where it is. If you can't clear brush and other tender from your property, if the state refuses to build fire breaks in forests, and you are prohibited from taking steps to protect your home from fire by code without onerous permitting processes and inspections, the blame falls entirely and squarely on government.
    There are many rules, state, county as well as fed & city but many ppl are resisting clearing their property 60-100 ft from homes/structures..

    & even many of these are inadequate in high winds......

    Last year fire insurance in the state- in the foothills/mountains quadrupled... A real wake up call along w/ the power outages....
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



  2. #17 | Top
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Olympia, Wa
    Posts
    22,827
    Thanks
    1,349
    Thanked 6,006 Times in 4,909 Posts
    Groans
    1
    Groaned 248 Times in 237 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    I have not been able to verify this but I long ago read an argument that what needs to happen is logging most everything, and planting trees that are better suited for the climate, that what happened was that long ago trees were selected for their use a lumber and pulp (which makes sense) but if we are not going to allow logging then these are not the right trees. THAT I was told was the original sin, not global warming. Obviously this is not something that anyone is going to want to talk about, because it depowers the desired narrative on global warming, because it would take 30 years to accomplish, and because there is no dream even of finding the money to do what ideally would be done.
    American ignorance is heroic./Nothing is forever, even America's decline.<<<<<<<<<<<Douglas Murray Fox Nation 7/26

  3. #18 | Top
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    11,820
    Thanks
    7,004
    Thanked 2,816 Times in 2,439 Posts
    Groans
    336
    Groaned 114 Times in 112 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    I have not been able to verify this but I long ago read an argument that what needs to happen is logging most everything, and planting trees that are better suited for the climate, that what happened was that long ago trees were selected for their use a lumber and pulp (which makes sense) but if we are not going to allow logging then these are not the right trees. THAT I was told was the original sin, not global warming. Obviously this is not something that anyone is going to want to talk about, because it depowers the desired narrative on global warming, because it would take 30 years to accomplish, and because there is no dream even of finding the money to do what ideally would be done.
    The only trees that should be planted around there are ones that are native to the area. That's very important stuff.

    God knew what he was doing when he put certain trees in certain areas.

    I heard there's no hardwoods out there.
    Last edited by Matt Dillon; 09-08-2020 at 07:57 PM.

  4. #19 | Top
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Olympia, Wa
    Posts
    22,827
    Thanks
    1,349
    Thanked 6,006 Times in 4,909 Posts
    Groans
    1
    Groaned 248 Times in 237 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Dillon View Post
    The only trees that should be planted around there are ones that are native to the area. That's very important stuff.

    God knew what he was doing when he put certain trees in certain areas.
    That argument fails if the climate is changing significantly.

    Anyways California has failed completely up to this point in managing the problem, their work is generally terrible, there is no money, so this problem will in all likelihood never be addressed anywhere close to good enough.

    My advice is to give up on California....leave.
    American ignorance is heroic./Nothing is forever, even America's decline.<<<<<<<<<<<Douglas Murray Fox Nation 7/26

  5. #20 | Top
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    11,820
    Thanks
    7,004
    Thanked 2,816 Times in 2,439 Posts
    Groans
    336
    Groaned 114 Times in 112 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    That argument fails if the climate is changing significantly.

    Anyways California has failed completely up to this point in managing the problem, their work is generally terrible, there is no money, so this problem will in all likelihood never be addressed anywhere close to good enough.

    My advice is to give up on California....leave.
    Yeah no, no it doesn't.

    Government got money to do things...

    https://www.firehouse.com/prevention...-trump-support

    Having a hard time finding it..but Newsome did start an effort to address all the deadwood n stuff 2 months before the Camp fire happened.
    It was too little , too late though.
    Last edited by Matt Dillon; 09-08-2020 at 08:07 PM.

  6. #21 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    State of Bliss
    Posts
    31,009
    Thanks
    7,095
    Thanked 5,196 Times in 3,829 Posts
    Groans
    433
    Groaned 261 Times in 257 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    I have not been able to verify this but I long ago read an argument that what needs to happen is logging most everything, and planting trees that are better suited for the climate, that what happened was that long ago trees were selected for their use a lumber and pulp (which makes sense) but if we are not going to allow logging then these are not the right trees. THAT I was told was the original sin, not global warming. Obviously this is not something that anyone is going to want to talk about, because it depowers the desired narrative on global warming, because it would take 30 years to accomplish, and because there is no dream even of finding the money to do what ideally would be done.
    ???These are native trees burning, not tree farms.

    I hike in those & they are pretty well managed....
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



  7. #22 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    12,046
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 5,802 Times in 4,155 Posts
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 207 Times in 188 Posts

    Default

    This is an example of how pedantic California's rules are...

    Let's say I own a property somewhere in one of these fire prone areas.

    I buy and have available a sprinkler system for my home and have cleared what brush etc., I can under state law.



    I then need a fully reliable supply of water to run my sprinklers. The state's laws on rainwater harvesting are such that I can't put gutters on my house and install a say 2500 gallon cistern on my property to store that water. Can't do that. I by law have to let it run off or be used for immediate ground water recharge. So, I would have to buy the water and fill the cistern. But I likely can't install the cistern in any case. It like swimming pools are heavily restricted by building code.
    But somehow I manage to get them to let me do one let's say... Now I have to install a reliable on-site power supply and pump system to supply the sprinklers. This too requires permits and inspections and will meet resistance unless I use something like bio-diesel fuel because of environmental laws.
    Then there's the sprinklers and environmental laws where I have to have the correct kind of roof on my house to prevent roofing material from contaminating the ground or water supply...

    That's how California is today. If you're a millionaire you can probably do this stuff. You're some working stiff that makes decent money you are screwed even if you can do all of this yourself. The state just wipes out your chances with bureaucracy and the cost of that bureaucracy.

    Now, if I could install this system, the chances of my house burning down in a wildfire go down by roughly 90%. The state doesn't care. They only care I follow their one-size-fits-all rules and pay for all the permits and fees.

    The reason I can't rely on a water supply system like one the city or state has to my house is because in wildfires my neighbors will likely be using it too and the fire department then starts using it so the supply pressure drops to nothing and I get no water for my sprinklers. Hence the need for an independent system with sufficient capacity to go 8 to 12 hours.

  8. #23 | Top
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    37,811
    Thanks
    14,206
    Thanked 10,506 Times in 8,074 Posts
    Groans
    428
    Groaned 2,281 Times in 2,108 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Figuring out how to pay for what must be done....PG&E is now debt ridden, and the electric rates are already almost the highest in the nation....even as they have done a crap job over a lot of years.



    https://www.wsj.com/articles/pg-e-kn...s%2065%20years.




    https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...ia-probe-finds
    'Gender Reveal Parties'.
    This is what happens when you let the LGBT Community hold their Coming Out parties in the State Parks.

  9. #24 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    State of Bliss
    Posts
    31,009
    Thanks
    7,095
    Thanked 5,196 Times in 3,829 Posts
    Groans
    433
    Groaned 261 Times in 257 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    This is an example of how pedantic California's rules are...

    Let's say I own a property somewhere in one of these fire prone areas.

    I buy and have available a sprinkler system for my home and have cleared what brush etc., I can under state law.



    I then need a fully reliable supply of water to run my sprinklers. The state's laws on rainwater harvesting are such that I can't put gutters on my house and install a say 2500 gallon cistern on my property to store that water. Can't do that. I by law have to let it run off or be used for immediate ground water recharge. So, I would have to buy the water and fill the cistern. But I likely can't install the cistern in any case. It like swimming pools are heavily restricted by building code.
    But somehow I manage to get them to let me do one let's say... Now I have to install a reliable on-site power supply and pump system to supply the sprinklers. This too requires permits and inspections and will meet resistance unless I use something like bio-diesel fuel because of environmental laws.
    Then there's the sprinklers and environmental laws where I have to have the correct kind of roof on my house to prevent roofing material from contaminating the ground or water supply...

    That's how California is today. If you're a millionaire you can probably do this stuff. You're some working stiff that makes decent money you are screwed even if you can do all of this yourself. The state just wipes out your chances with bureaucracy and the cost of that bureaucracy.

    Now, if I could install this system, the chances of my house burning down in a wildfire go down by roughly 90%. The state doesn't care. They only care I follow their one-size-fits-all rules and pay for all the permits and fees.

    The reason I can't rely on a water supply system like one the city or state has to my house is because in wildfires my neighbors will likely be using it too and the fire department then starts using it so the supply pressure drops to nothing and I get no water for my sprinklers. Hence the need for an independent system with sufficient capacity to go 8 to 12 hours.

    You know most of the state barely gets 20 inches of rain??

    The entire system of water regulation/rights in the west is convoluted & antiquated..

    This is Santa Rosa, Calif..... A sprinkler wasn't going to help in this fire
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



  10. #25 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    12,046
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 5,802 Times in 4,155 Posts
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 207 Times in 188 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    You know most of the state barely gets 20 inches of rain??

    The entire system of water regulation/rights in the west is convoluted & antiquated..

    This is Santa Rosa, Calif..... A sprinkler wasn't going to help in this fire
    A sprinkler system like the one I showed would save your house roughly 90% of the time.
    Exterior sprinklers have better than a 90% success rate in saving structures in wildfires.
    http://www.onestopfire.com/sprinklers.htm

    Look at the pictures in that link. Sprinklers work and they work great. They're worth the $2000 to $5000 to install a full system. With a cistern, generator, and pump on site like I mentioned, the cost is $7500 to $20000 depending on how much you contract out.

  11. #26 | Top
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    58,916
    Thanks
    78,775
    Thanked 37,446 Times in 24,015 Posts
    Groans
    2,529
    Groaned 4,359 Times in 4,039 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    You know most of the state barely gets 20 inches of rain??

    The entire system of water regulation/rights in the west is convoluted & antiquated..

    This is Santa Rosa, Calif..... A sprinkler wasn't going to help in this fire
    Horrible.

  12. #27 | Top
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    34,406
    Thanks
    205
    Thanked 14,805 Times in 10,319 Posts
    Groans
    4,172
    Groaned 3,364 Times in 3,126 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    A sprinkler system like the one I showed would save your house roughly 90% of the time.


    http://www.onestopfire.com/sprinklers.htm

    Look at the pictures in that link. Sprinklers work and they work great. They're worth the $2000 to $5000 to install a full system. With a cistern, generator, and pump on site like I mentioned, the cost is $7500 to $20000 depending on how much you contract out.
    Fires do not just set roofs on fire.

  13. #28 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    State of Bliss
    Posts
    31,009
    Thanks
    7,095
    Thanked 5,196 Times in 3,829 Posts
    Groans
    433
    Groaned 261 Times in 257 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    A sprinkler system like the one I showed would save your house roughly 90% of the time.


    http://www.onestopfire.com/sprinklers.htm

    Look at the pictures in that link. Sprinklers work and they work great. They're worth the $2000 to $5000 to install a full system. With a cistern, generator, and pump on site like I mentioned, the cost is $7500 to $20000 depending on how much you contract out.
    Did you even bother to read what the conditions were during that fire & several others we have had?? This aint Canada.....

    Imagine that sprinkler in this wind.
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



  14. #29 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    State of Bliss
    Posts
    31,009
    Thanks
    7,095
    Thanked 5,196 Times in 3,829 Posts
    Groans
    433
    Groaned 261 Times in 257 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



  15. #30 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    State of Bliss
    Posts
    31,009
    Thanks
    7,095
    Thanked 5,196 Times in 3,829 Posts
    Groans
    433
    Groaned 261 Times in 257 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmal View Post
    Horrible.
    Yep, very, very sad & so sudden.... I would have never thought it possible.

    I see the winds & fires in south Calif but they lack much vegetation but here there are trees & add fire & 70-80 mph winds & just like that, it's gone..

    I drove by their area 6 months or so after on my way to the coast & it look unreal..... It jumped the 8 lane highway & burned a modern shopping mall......

    My house is stucco, tile roof, so I thought that can't happen here...........

    After reading more on it I saw the wood beams protruding from the roof, some bushes next to the house etc......
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 81
    Last Post: 01-12-2021, 04:55 PM
  2. Calif. colleges may ask students if they are gay
    By cawacko in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 03-30-2012, 01:03 PM
  3. Calif. gov signs bill to prevent circumcision bans
    By Cancel 2018. 3 in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-02-2011, 09:31 PM
  4. New Normal
    By Topspin in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-25-2010, 06:22 AM
  5. We are so used to it, this is normal...
    By Jarod in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 02-29-2008, 04:18 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •