PoliTalker (08-15-2020)
FED policies: $2.3 trillion in lending, purchasing $500 billion in treasury securities and $200 billion in morgage backed securities, low interest loans to securities firms, expanding repo agreements, backing money market mutual funds, direct lending to state and local governments and non-profits and small businesses, relaxing regulatory requirements, etc.
Also expectation of an improving economy, a good buying opportunity, and very low interest rates making fixed income investments a poor investment.
PoliTalker (08-15-2020)
Hello ThatOwlWoman,
Taxes should have been raised when the economy began to do well. That is the only time the debt can be properly serviced. With a strong economy you can work on the debt. When the economy tanks you can't. That's when you have to accept some rising debt. Because Trump foolishly used the debt to dial up the good economy instead of paying it down, we had debt rise during the good economy coupled with double debt rise during the recession to equal tripled debt rise. And it's all on him because we should have paid it down when we had the chance, and proper handling of the crisis by a real leader would have saved jobs and reduced the amount which has had to be outlayed during the crisis.
If this had all been handled properly with responsible leadership we would have worked on the debt while we had the chance and limited recession debt rise to the amount gained with responsible taxation to just about cancel out gains and losses, resulting in approximately steady debt.
We should have socked it away when we had the chance but we didn't so now we have to pay and pay.
Last edited by PoliTalker; 08-15-2020 at 07:20 AM.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
Earl (08-15-2020)
ThatOwlWoman (08-15-2020)
Hello cawacko,
Not a goal but a necessity. The super-rich driven wealth extraction system called the US economy is very efficient, thanks to our hyper-charged modern capitalism. Poor people don't usually have even all the basics. They have no savings. What little income they get, usually for working long hours at several jobs all goes to supporting what lifestyle they can eke out. They are often in debt to rip-off high interest credit vultures such as buy-here-pay-here car lots and payday loan joints. They have no net worth. What they have is negative net worth. This is how they pay rent, stay off the streets, feed and cloth themselves, and attempt to raise children. It's not a smart financial plan, there is no plan. Their life simply happened to them, the way they see it. They were not raised to be thrifty, but they have more kids and have no idea how to raise THEM to be thrifty either. The problem is cross-generational. It is not their fault if they got born into that predicament. Kudos to the few who can extricate themselves from it, but that number is eclipsed by the majority who fail to do that, which perpetuates the problem.
When their public service jobs go away, the government needs to support them because if we don't it will only end up creating bigger problems and costing us more later. Their consumer spending drives the economy.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
"Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals." -- Mark Twain
PoliTalker (08-15-2020)
Hello ThatOwlWoman,
I don't see any change to that cycle.
If the administration flips, all the Republican debt hawks who migrated south for the duration of the Trump disaster show will be back to criticize Democrats for the debt the Republicans own. They will carry on and on about being responsible and how tax cuts fuel the economy, and spending needs to be cut cut cut. They won't be able to offer an specifics about just WHAT spending could possibly be cut enough to reduce the debt, but that doesn't matter. If you try to pin them down to specifics they will use ad hominems and red herrings, anything but straight talk about the subject.
The Republican party is the party of false ideas and self-fooling. And that's putting it nicely.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
ThatOwlWoman (08-15-2020)
Here is a thought
Maybe the economy isn’t as bad as leftists want to believe?
I mean after all these JPP leftists still believe there was Russian collusion
Same reason all the lotto tickets are bought by the poorest people. It is the sole facet of the economy untethered to anything except the naked choice
of people to do whatever they want. The other indicators are more grounded. When there are no jobs, unemployment has to go up. When the money supply is
increased and distributed, prices have to go up. When supply chains make more goods, output has to increase. But the stock market is just a bunch of
people parking money like they used to do with savings accounts. Stock market is more a measure of the rational and irrational choices of those with excess
cash. What does your local savings and loan pay in interest? Nobody but the most anxious are going to plop their money in a savings account.
ThatOwlWoman (08-15-2020)
Exactly. Fiscal conservatives decry the lack of savings by average working people. But where is their incentive? Even CDs don't pay much these days. I'm no economist, but I suspect one reason why the stock market has been so robust is the only savings vehicle left for regular ppl is their 401(k)s, and those are generally invested in the markets by their managers, depending on what options the employee selected.
Just imagine a future where the (R)s have finally managed to get rid of Medicare and Social Security. Few employers offer pensions anymore. So the *only* retirement a worker will have is whatever he/she can park in his/her 401(k). But in a severe economic downturn like this one, the laid-off worker might have to liquidate all or part of that account just to keep their bills paid up and kids fed. They won't have squat to live on when they get to retirement age. That's the GOP plan -- work hard your entire life, then drop dead. Pretty much like their health care plan -- don't get sick but if you do, die quickly.
"Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals." -- Mark Twain
Micawber (08-15-2020)
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