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Guno צְבִי (08-09-2020), ThatOwlWoman (08-09-2020)
"Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"
Agreed with the general principle, but as I've posted several times before, the "vote for the lesser of two evils" strategy isn't working. Each member of each party needs to hold their own party accountable for its leaders. If it doesn't then we end up with corrupt or idiotic politicians.
"Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"
Hello ThatOwlWoman,
Long ago and on a chat board far away I recall the deplorable mindset's response to calls for conservation when gas prices got so crazy high. Oh no, it was their god-given right to burn up as much gas as they wanted, and just to rub it in one said he just liked to hear the sound of the motor, and he knew that revving it up at a light would 'light up the liberals.' It made him happy to think that what he was doing was making other people sad.
How pathetic. To have a human mind, and be so incapable of finding anything else in life to bring a smile at that moment other than bothering others.
And that's all part of the we/they - winners/losers mindset.
It is a foolish belief that there are these simple divisions between groups, one group being all good, and the other being all bad. Naturally people want to be in the good group. So they make out like the other group is horrible. And this is then used to justify actually being horrible. The reasoning being that if somebody else does something wrong, then that makes it OK for everyone else to then do that wrong thing. Like it isn't wrong any more. Because somebody else did it already and got away with it. Makes it OK. /sarc
That leads to the secondary belief that if you're being bad to bad people, that makes it OK to be bad.
Which is nonsense, of course. It's that belief that got George Floyd killed.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
ThatOwlWoman (08-09-2020)
Hello ThatOwlWoman,
Since this whole thing broke wide open, I have not:
Eaten in a restaurant
Gotten take out
Bought any clothes
Been to a bar
Been to a movie
Been to a concert
Been to a sports game
Taken part in any amateur team sports
Done any travel or flying
Been to a large family gathering
Been to a party
Been to a museum
Been to the library
Shopped for groceries during peak hours
Been inside a convenience store
Been in any kind of store for anything not essential.
Now, it's not like I don't miss all those things. I have bought things, contributed to the economy. I bought a TV online and picked it up. They brought it outside to my vehicle. I bought a car without ever setting foot inside their building. They were completely happy to bring all the paperwork outside. More than happy. Everything with masks, sanitizer, untouched brand new pens, as much distancing as possible. Very nice. Happy to do it. And I like the car. American car.
I do miss all those things I'm not doing. But I'm OK without them for a while. All we have to do is buy time. This has been going on since March and it is now August. Those of us who have made it this far without spreading the virus are doing very good. All we have to do is hang in there and buy more time. We have already shown we can do that. Those who have to work in essential jobs and reasonably safe work have to do what they have to do. Bout for the rest of us, we need to keep fighting the virus with everything we've got. Maybe we only have to get to next year. There's a lot of promise in the numerous efforts to produce a safe and effective vaccine.
Maybe we are at the half way point.
It isn't going to be like this forever. All we have to is buy more time. Here at JPP we are lucky. We already have this way of socializing, having discussions. I guess just about everybody has some sort of social media. It had to be a lot worse in 1918. What are we? A bunch of weenies? I call BS! We can DO THIS. We're probably half way done with it. Just hang in there. We'll be fine.
And think of how wonderful it will be when we can safely have gatherings again! Oh, it will be FABULOUS!!!
How precious it will seem!
How much we will appreciate the things we once took for granted.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
Guno צְבִי (08-09-2020), ThatOwlWoman (08-09-2020)
Last edited by PoliTalker; 08-09-2020 at 09:32 AM.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
Doc Dutch (08-09-2020)
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
Doc Dutch (08-09-2020)
Hello Dutch Uncle,
Voting for the lessor is far better than allowing the greater to have access to power.
We cannot have our votes reflect our first choice candidate until we have ranked choice voting. That's what you really want. And I do too. The two-party duopoly fights it. It's time for us to fight back.
The American Anti-Corruption Act would mandate Ranked Choice Voting:
(And correct so many more wrongs...)
"1 Stop political bribery
Make it illegal for politicians to take money from lobbyists.
Politicians get extraordinary sums of money in the form of campaign donations from the special interests who lobby them. In return, politicians create laws favorable to these special interests – even when those laws hurt voters.
Under the American Anti-Corruption Act, people who get paid to lobby cannot donate to politicians.
Ban lobbyist bundling.
Lobbyists regularly bundle together big contributions from their friends and colleagues and deliver them in one lump sum to politicians. This turns lobbyists into major fundraisers, giving politicians an incentive to keep them happy by working political favors.
The Act prohibits lobbyists from bundling contributions.
Close the revolving door.
Lobbyists and special interests routinely offer public officials high-paying lobbying jobs. Politicians and their staff routinely move straight from government to these lucrative lobbying jobs, where they get paid to influence their former colleagues.
The Act stops elected representatives and senior staff from selling off their government power for high-paying lobbying jobs, prohibits them from negotiating jobs while in office, and bars them from paid lobbying activity for several years once they leave.
Prevent politicians from fundraising during working hours.
Most federal politicians spend between 3 and 7 hours a day fundraising from big donors instead of working on issues that matter to voters.
Under the Act, politicians are prevented from raising money during the workday, when they should be serving their constituents.
2 End Secret Money
Immediately disclose political money online.
Current disclosure laws are outdated and broken. Many donations are not disclosed for months, and some are never made available electronically, making it difficult for citizens and journalists to follow the money in our political system.
The Anti-Corruption Act ensures that all significant political fundraising and spending is immediately disclosed online and made easily accessible to the public.
Stop donors from hiding behind secret-money groups.
Elections are being flooded with big money funneled through groups with secret donors. These secretive groups spend money directly to influence elections and make unlimited contributions to super PACs, which run ads to elect and defeat candidates.
Under the Act, any organization that spends meaningful funds on political advertisements is required to file a timely online report disclosing its major donors.
3 Fix Our Broken Elections
End gerrymandering.
Politicians are intentionally drawing the lines around voters in order to guarantee their own re-election and give their political party an unfair advantage.
The Anti-Corruption Act ends gerrymandering by creating independent, fully transparent redistricting commissions that follow strict guidelines to ensure accurate representation for all voters, regardless of political party.
Let all voters participate in open primaries.
By controlling the primaries, the political establishment controls which candidates we can vote on.
The Act makes all candidates for the same office compete in a single, open primary controlled by voters, not the political establishment. This gives voters more control over our elections and more choices at the ballot.
Let voters rank their top candidates, avoid “spoilers.”
Outdated voting systems force voters to choose between the “lesser of two evils” at the ballot box or vote for a “spoiler” candidate.
Under the Act, voters can rank their top candidates, allowing them to support their top choice without fear of inadvertently helping elect the other party’s candidate. If their top choice isn’t going to win, their vote transfers to their second choice, and so on. This makes it easier to elect independent-minded candidates who aren’t beholden to establishment special interests.
Automatic voter registration.
Our voter rolls and registration systems are outdated, error-prone, and costly. New and proven systems can save taxpayer money and ensure that all eligible voters are able to participate on Election Day.
The Act automatically registers all interested eligible voters when they interact with government agencies – whether it’s when they go to the DMV, get a hunting license, apply for food assistance, or sign up for the national guard. Voters can always opt-out from being registered. Information is transmitted electronically and securely to a central source maintained by the state.
Vote at home or at the polls.
Election Day is a mess. Forcing voters to take time off from work and their families to stand in long lines on a Tuesday is ineffective, insecure, and outdated.
The Act improves voter service by sending ballots to voters at home and allowing them to mail it back on their own timeframe, or drop it off at a professionally-staffed voting center. Voters can still vote in person or receive assistance at a voting center.
Reasonable term limits.
When elected officials are allowed to become career politicians, our elections become uncompetitive and new ideas have a harder time being heard.
The Act sets reasonable term limits of 18 years total at each level of government, so that candidates focus on public service instead of staying in office.
Change how elections are funded.
Running a political campaign is expensive, but few Americans can afford to donate to political campaigns. That makes politicians dependent upon – and therefore responsive to – a tiny fraction of special-interest donors.
The Act offers every voter a small credit they can use to make a political donation with no out-of-pocket expense. Candidates and political groups are only eligible to receive these credits if they agree to fundraise solely from small donors. The Act also empowers political action committees that only take donations from small donors, giving everyday people a stronger voice in our elections.
4 Enforce the Rules
Crack down on super PACs.
As a result of the Supreme Court’s Citizens United ruling, the Supreme Court ruled that super PACs can spend unlimited money influencing elections, so long as they do not coordinate directly with candidate campaigns. Since then, there has been tremendous coordination between campaigns and their super PACs, making a mockery of the “independence” the Supreme Court said must exist.
The American Anti-Corruption Act enforces the Supreme Court’s mandate by fixing the rules aimed at preventing and punishing super PAC coordination.
Eliminate lobbyist loopholes.
The definition of “lobbyist” is weak and outdated. As a result, lobbyists regularly avoid disclosure, and former politicians and their staff can receive big money to influence politicians without formally registering as lobbyists.
The Act prevents lobbyists from skirting the rules by strengthening the definition of lobbying and penalizing lobbyists who fail to register.
Strengthen anti-corruption enforcement.
Agencies routinely fail to enforce the anti-corruption rules that already exist due to partisan deadlock – and when they are able to act, they often lack the enforcement tools necessary to uphold the law. The result is an elections system where even lax rules can be skirted or broken with impunity.
The Act strengthens enforcement of anti-corruption laws by overhauling the broken Federal Election Commission and giving prosecutors the tools they need to combat corruption."
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
No, I don't know but truisms often stick with a society no matter how many people say it in different ways.
Judging a society is based on the morals of the judge. I could judge a society from a warrior point of view: kill all the deformed babies and banish any person over 18 who can't participate in battle. Wars are won by never giving mercy; destroy all who oppose you. All that matters is to win and to die honorably if we lose.
OR I can judge it from a humane, Christian, Buddhist point of view: freedom to live one's life without being forced, care for others, strive for the betterment of one's life, one's family and humanity as a whole.
Both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States share the latter point of view:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
"Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"
Guno צְבִי (08-09-2020), PoliTalker (08-09-2020), ThatOwlWoman (08-09-2020)
I should have phrased that better; human societies and turning large ships is slow. Like a plague, impact event or supervolcano, change can occur rapidly in both nature and society. For the most part, however, where humans are concerned, it's slow. People can see it coming if they are looking for it.
"Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"
PoliTalker (08-09-2020)
Disagreed for two reasons: It doesn't explain "why" people feel that way and, second, explain that hatred and selfishness is self-destructive. If so, why are so many people seeking this? Saying "They're all haters. Fuck them" then throwing one's hands up and walking away does and answers nothing. Without answers, we can't move forward.
"Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"
"There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."
"There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."
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