This question is problematic. How do you define "abortion"? Does it involve the killing of a living human who has committed no crime and who has not expressed any desire to die?
If there is no heartbeat yet then one can argue that there is no living human yet.
My concerns specifically entail a living human ... which requires a heartbeat. (Note: I'm not talking about a temporary cessation of the heartbeat, i.e. I claim that it is not right to kill someone who is having a heart attack). I don't want to sound obtruse but it is important to ensure correct words are used. I also don't want to leave you hanging without some sort of answer so the best response I can give is that abortion up until a heartbeat is simply not being addressed here.
For the sake of this topic, yes, the heartbeat is the dividing line between "killing a living human" and "there's nothing to see here". If that happens to be exactly at "six weeks" then great. If there is a heartbeat one day prior then we have a living human one day before the six-week point.
Let's pick the world's top cardiologist and make him/her the arbiter of when there is officially a heartbeat ... and then use that definition. It probably won't be an amount of time, e.g. "six weeks" but rather a function of something biological/anatomical. Of course, this will change and become more refined as medical science changes over time.
Whether the heart is fully formed is irrelevant. No human who suffers from a non-fully formed heart (heart defect) should be able to be killed or considered "not living" because his heart is not fully formed. If the heart is beating and causing blood to flow then there is a heartbeat. If the heart is forming and spasms somehow before starting to "beat" for the flowing ov blood then it isn't a heartbeat. In any event, I would prefer to leave all of these determinations to a cardiologist ... and not politicians ... and not to any political organization disguised as a medical organization.
1. When does human life begin? Why is this? What science do you have to support this?
2. So I take it that you are also against the various mask wearing mandates that States/Counties/Cities across the country have implemented?
But to dive further into your point here, abortion is not an issue of "exercising control over one's body"... That control is exercised the very moment that the woman made the decision to spread her legs...
3. I can't speak for him, but for myself, I do not make exceptions for rape/incest. My only exception is in the very rare case where the life of the mother is at risk. I'm not the biggest fan of those other methods/pills either. I prefer to not mess with nature (or in Christian terminology, the attempt to "know better than God").
There are too many trolls this year. Seems to have grown, not sure why. But the questions are formed in a way that is the usual exculpatory nonsense as it pretends there is care on the side of the so called pro life, but there is none as they prove almost daily. Think of healthcare for all as one example. Hypocrisy at its best.
"Abolition of a woman's right to abortion, when and if she wants it, amounts to compulsory maternity: a form of rape by the State." Edward Abbey
Let me repeat: Abortion is the hypocrite's crutch, a child dies every few seconds in the world and even in America of preventable healthcare issues and never ever do you hear abortion foes talk of helping the living born conscious human being. It is only this moral outrage over abortion that gets notice for it requires nothing of the moralist except judgment and condemnation of the other. Consider too the misogyny and racism so evident in America during the last President and 2016 election and you must wonder why this love of children does not extend into love of all people? How hard it is to to fund help for the needy in America, CHIP was an example, or universal healthcare, and you soon realize abortion like guns is only a wedge issue used to manage the mind of the easily persuaded. Religion, and especially evangelical religion in America has come to be about political power and money and no longer has anything to do with morality, you know simply doing good for your neighbor.
"Diarrhoea is a leading killer of children, accounting for 9 per cent of all deaths among children under age 5 worldwide in 2015. This translates to over 1,400 young children dying each day, or about 526,000 children a year, despite the availability of simple effective treatment."
https://data.unicef.org/topic/child-...hoeal-disease/
http://harpers.org/archive/1987/10/w...-nurses-story/
"For some reason, the most vocal Christians among us never mention the Beatitudes (Matthew 5). But, often with tears in their eyes, they demand that the Ten Commandments be posted in public buildings. And of course, that's Moses, not Jesus. I haven't heard one of them demand that the Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, be posted anywhere. "Blessed are the merciful" in a courtroom? "Blessed are the peacemakers" in the Pentagon? Give me a break!" Kurt Vonnegut
Wanna make America great, buy American owned, made in the USA, we do. AF Veteran, INFJ-A, I am not PC.
"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it." Voltaire
Phantasmal (08-13-2020)
Iolo/Penderyn (08-17-2020), Phantasmal (08-13-2020)
Well a good way to prove it is he has called me a Nazi and hasn't provided a shred of evidence for it. Now he might have proof I am a Nazi but hasn't shown it. That would would make him incompetent. Then again, and more likely, he might not have any proof I am a Nazi but just says i am a Nazi. That would make him an idiot at best or a complete and utter duplicitous POS at worse. I thought I'd go with giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Last edited by Yakuda; 08-13-2020 at 08:48 AM.
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