John Wayne Exhibition Removed

[Doc Dutch]

Read the thread. Your statement is false. Of the three, only Bill Clinton dodged the draft. Trump, like many others got a deferment--deserved or not. Wayne got deferred too several times for different reasons. Bill Clinton on the other hand deliberately signed up for ROTC, got a deferment then quit the program immediately afterwards. That is, he found a way to get deferred then failed to follow through with the program the deferment was for. Clearly he did this to dodge the draft.
Trump's medical deferment might have been a dodge, but we don't know for sure and the military bought his medical reason.

In Wayne's case it was for age, dependents, and later for being critical to the war program in his employment.

They are all draft-dodgers. Funny how only the fucking Democrat is the draft-dodger in your opinion but your two heroes are not.

Anyone who has ever served knows that if a person wants to serve, they can even with minor defects such as a shoulder injury that doesn't stop a person from working as stuntman. I won't even bother with the weenie "bone spurs" and "anal piles" excuses.

[archives]

Read the thread. Your statement is false. Of the three, only Bill Clinton dodged the draft. Trump, like many others got a deferment--deserved or not. Wayne got deferred too several times for different reasons. Bill Clinton on the other hand deliberately signed up for ROTC, got a deferment then quit the program immediately afterwards. That is, he found a way to get deferred then failed to follow through with the program the deferment was for. Clearly he did this to dodge the draft.
Trump's medical deferment might have been a dodge, but we don't know for sure and the military bought his medical reason.

In Wayne's case it was for age, dependents, and later for being critical to the war program in his employment.

"being critical to the war program in his employment?" He wasn't the only one pumping out propaganda films, even the Three Stooges did it

And regardless of anything else, John Wayne was an awful actor, of all his films, he only really acted in three, Stagecoach, more acclaimed cause he was new to the screen, Red River, and the Searchers. He did nothing in his life to earn a statue, and as was surmised earlier, he only got one cause he was a big time donor to USC

[archives]

They are all draft-dodgers. Funny how only the fucking Democrat is the draft-dodger in your opinion but your two heroes are not.

Anyone who has ever served knows that if a person wants to serve, they can even with minor defects such as a shoulder injury that doesn't stop a person from working as stuntman. I won't even bother with the weenie "bone spurs" and "anal piles" excuses.

Especially when you consider where those people were at that time in their lives, like Fred didn't arrange for Donny to get his deferments, the Selective Service at that time was locally administered, if you had connections, deferments came easy

[T. A. Gardner]

They are all draft-dodgers. Funny how only the fucking Democrat is the draft-dodger in your opinion but your two heroes are not.

Anyone who has ever served knows that if a person wants to serve, they can even with minor defects such as a shoulder injury that doesn't stop a person from working as stuntman. I won't even bother with the weenie "bone spurs" and "anal piles" excuses.

None of them are my heroes. Instead, I based my answer on actual draft practices in US history, and the actual history of the three involved. I placed the details of Wayne's deferments at the beginning of this thread.

You also, as almost anyone who has never bothered to read so much as a word on the history of the draft in modern times in the US, to see that about 1 in 3 people drafted are rejected or deferred for various reasons, and in some parts of the US, as many as 1 in 2.

[T. A. Gardner]

"being critical to the war program in his employment?" He wasn't the only one pumping out propaganda films, even the Three Stooges did it

And regardless of anything else, John Wayne was an awful actor, of all his films, he only really acted in three, Stagecoach, more acclaimed cause he was new to the screen, Red River, and the Searchers. He did nothing in his life to earn a statue, and as was surmised earlier, he only got one cause he was a big time donor to USC

I just noted that in early 1944 he was reclassified as II-A and that was the reason given. I will also note that it was Republic Studio's management that requested and got his deferment, not Wayne himself. Whereas in 1940 when he first came up for a draft, he was classified III-A because he was 34 (at that time the maximum age being taken) and had 4 dependent children (only single men were being accepted at that time).

As for his career on screen, that's a different subject.

[Doc Dutch]

Especially when you consider where those people were at that time in their lives, like Fred didn't arrange for Donny to get his deferments, the Selective Service at that time was locally administered, if you had connections, deferments came easy

Agreed. It's not like Bill and Don were alone in dodging the draft. Most of the white rich guys did it. It was rare when they did go. IIRC, Al Gore went on his father's advice about future politics. Like Trump doesn't like POWs, I don't like draft-dodgers. They can all kiss my hairy, unwashed ass regardless of their politics or beliefs.

[Doc Dutch]

None of them are my heroes. Instead, I based my answer on actual draft practices in US history, and the actual history of the three involved. I placed the details of Wayne's deferments at the beginning of this thread.

You also, as almost anyone who has never bothered to read so much as a word on the history of the draft in modern times in the US, to see that about 1 in 3 people drafted are rejected or deferred for various reasons, and in some parts of the US, as many as 1 in 2.

No doubt all of your friends admire your legal and historical expertise.

None of them were ever prosecuted for draft-dodging because what they did was legal. Hypocrisy is you give a pass to some and condemn others based purely on politics.

[Cypress]

Argument of ignorance fallacy.

Subjective opinion used as an invalid proof.

You seem to forget that John Wayne died in 1979...yet statues of him exist. Exhibits of him and his work exist. Museums have sections devoted to John Wayne and his movies. Even an airport is named after him. He is known throughout the world. Memorials or statues depict him in several countries. What you consider a 'mediocre actor' is an actor that is celebrated around the world.

I know some that sit and watch a John Wayne movie as well. Heck, I know some that watch a Marx Bros. movie. Those are even older films.

I did not say Marion Morrison (aka, fake stage name John Wayne) was not widely known.

I did not even say certain people (octogenarians and septuagenarians) may consider him a cultural icon.


What I said is that I doubt many Gen Xers or millennials consider him an icon, let alone even watch his crappy movies. And that trend of utter disregard for Marion's legacy is only going to accelerate in coming years.

And I said he was a terrible actor mostly known for acting in numerous B-list Hollywood films.

Collectively, at this point in history Marion really does not merit statues, monuments, and airports in his honor. He is just not that important anymore.

[archives]

Agreed. It's not like Bill and Don were alone in dodging the draft. Most of the white rich guys did it. It was rare when they did go. IIRC, Al Gore went on his father's advice about future politics. Like Trump doesn't like POWs, I don't like draft-dodgers. They can all kiss my hairy, unwashed ass regardless of their politics or beliefs.

Correct, however there is a major difference, you don't see a lot of those who are Democrats coming out thirty years later and talking the tough guy macho military rhetoric, can't say the same for Trump, Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Cheney, etc

[cawacko]

"being critical to the war program in his employment?" He wasn't the only one pumping out propaganda films, even the Three Stooges did it

And regardless of anything else, John Wayne was an awful actor, of all his films, he only really acted in three, Stagecoach, more acclaimed cause he was new to the screen, Red River, and the Searchers. He did nothing in his life to earn a statue, and as was surmised earlier, he only got one cause he was a big time donor to USC

This is such a weird argument. To each his own whether one likes him or not but dude is considered an American icon and still ranks in polls as one of the most popular actors of the 20th century decades after his death. And you question why a University with the top film school would want to honor him?

Maybe you’re just trolling, I don’t know.

[T. A. Gardner]

I did not say Marion Morrison (aka, fake stage name John Wayne) was not widely known.

I did not even say certain people (octogenarians and septuagenarians) may consider him a cultural icon.


What I said is that I doubt many Gen Xers or millennials consider him an icon, let alone even watch his crappy movies. And that trend of utter disregard for Marion's legacy is only going to accelerate in coming years.

And I said he was a terrible actor mostly known for acting in numerous B-list Hollywood films.

Collectively, at this point in history Marion really does not merit statues, monuments, and airports in his honor. He is just not that important anymore.

Before John Wayne there was Tom Mix. Bet you never heard of him. He was the actor that got Wayne started in the business by the way. In his time (1905 to 1940 roughly) he was one of the biggest names in movies. Celebrity is fleeting. It always has been. Today's celebrity is tomorrow's forgotten idiot. Nothing new there.

[Doc Dutch]

Correct, however there is a major difference, you don't see a lot of those who are Democrats coming out thirty years later and talking the tough guy macho military rhetoric, can't say the same for Trump, Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Cheney, etc

RWers always like to rattle sabers...it's just that some are real warriors and the rest are chickenshit chickenhawks like "Trump, Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Cheney, etc".

How many past elected Democrat politicians were draft-dodgers besides Clinton? IIRC, Obama had one or two on his staff, but that's not the same.

FWIW, if a person is going to determine if our nation goes to war, they should have served in the military.

[Into the Night]

I did not say Marion Morrison (aka, fake stage name John Wayne) was not widely known.

I did not even say certain people (octogenarians and septuagenarians) may consider him a cultural icon.


What I said is that I doubt many Gen Xers or millennials consider him an icon, let alone even watch his crappy movies. And that trend of utter disregard for Marion's legacy is only going to accelerate in coming years.

And I said he was a terrible actor mostly known for acting in numerous B-list Hollywood films.

Collectively, at this point in history Marion really does not merit statues, monuments, and airports in his honor. He is just not that important anymore.

You don't get to speak for everyone. You only get to speak for you. You don't like John Wayne. That much is obvious. Your own personal opinion.

[cancel2 2022]

Before John Wayne there was Tom Mix. Bet you never heard of him. He was the actor that got Wayne started in the business by the way. In his time (1905 to 1940 roughly) he was one of the biggest names in movies. Celebrity is fleeting. It always has been. Today's celebrity is tomorrow's forgotten idiot. Nothing new there.

Don't forget Audie Murphy, he was truly a legend in WW2. He is also talking massive bollocks as True Grit, The Shootist, Liberty Vallance and Rooster Cogburn are great films as well.

https://www.military.com/off-duty/mo...-advocate.html

[cancel2 2022]

This is such a weird argument. To each his own whether one likes him or not but dude is considered an American icon and still ranks in polls as one of the most popular actors of the 20th century decades after his death. And you question why a University with the top film school would want to honor him?

Maybe you’re just trolling, I don’t know.

Arsecheese is just a miserable old sod, he can't help it!