Page 1 of 8 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 119

Thread: Stone Commutation Sparks Howls from Amnesiac Democrats

  1. #1 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    43,479
    Thanks
    12,574
    Thanked 23,756 Times in 16,563 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,622 Times in 1,532 Posts

    Default Stone Commutation Sparks Howls from Amnesiac Democrats

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/...iac-democrats/

    Bill Clinton pardoned his own brother for felony distribution of cocaine. And a key witness in the Whitewater scandal for which he and Hillary Clinton were under investigation. And three others convicted in independent counsel Ken Starr’s probe. And Marc Rich, in what was a straight up political payoff. And his CIA director. And his HUD secretary. And eight people convicted in an investigation of his Agriculture Department.

    No surprise there: The Clintons and their supporters then, like Trump and his supporters now, regarded the special-prosecutor probes into the administration as witch hunts.

    Clinton also commuted the sentences of convicted terrorists, some of whom hadn’t even asked for clemency. Shameless as he was, though, even he couldn’t bring himself to pardon Oscar Lopez Rivera, the defiantly unrepentant FALN leader.

    President Obama took care of that.

    Obama also commuted the sentence of a U.S. soldier who passed top-secret information to WikiLeaks. He pardoned his former Joint Chiefs of Staff vice chairman, who’d been convicted of making false statements about a leak of classified information to the New York Times. And when he couldn’t get Congress to amend federal drug laws the way he wanted them amended, Obama used the pardon power to slash hundreds of sentences, under an executive initiative later sharply criticized by the Obama-appointed DOJ inspector general.

  2. The Following User Groans At dukkha For This Awful Post:

    Rune (07-12-2020)

  3. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to dukkha For This Post:

    Cancel 2020.2 (07-12-2020), cancel2 2022 (07-12-2020), Darth Omar (07-12-2020), ExpressLane (07-12-2020), Grokmaster (07-12-2020), Irish (07-14-2020), Stretch (07-13-2020), Truth Detector (07-12-2020)

  4. #2 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    43,479
    Thanks
    12,574
    Thanked 23,756 Times in 16,563 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,622 Times in 1,532 Posts

    Default

    So, as abuses of the pardon power go — and they do go — I can’t get too whipped up over President Trump’s commutation of Roger Stone’s 40-month sentence for
    non-violent criminal obstruction of a bogusly based and ridiculously over-prosecuted investigation.


    Not under circumstances in which jail-house doors have been swung open all over the country by federal, state, and local governments, which are using the coronavirus pandemic as a rationale to release both hardened criminals and elderly convicts (i.e., those around Stone’s age).

    Not under circumstances in which Trump is keeping Stone’s felony convictions intact (i.e., Stone has not been pardoned . . . at least not yet).

    Not under circumstances in which many of Trump’s loudest critics are the same Democrats and media cheerleaders who not only soft-pedaled the outrageous Clinton and Obama pardons, but who would have been blissfully content to have the pervasively corrupt Hillary Clinton in the Oval Office exercising the pardon power — no doubt on her husband’s model.

  5. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to dukkha For This Post:

    blades (07-12-2020), Earl (07-12-2020), ExpressLane (07-12-2020), Stretch (07-13-2020), Truth Detector (07-12-2020)

  6. #3 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    43,479
    Thanks
    12,574
    Thanked 23,756 Times in 16,563 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,622 Times in 1,532 Posts

    Default

    Beyond that, the worst thing about the Stone pardon is the damage Trump has inflicted on his Justice Department. If he was going to commute Stone’s sentence, then he should have done it after Stone was convicted — or just pardoned Stone outright, since he claims to believe Stone did nothing wrong. Instead, because Trump did not want to take the political heat for that, the trial prosecutors, accurately applying the harsh sentencing guidelines, recommended a nine-year sentence. That induced Attorney General Barr to intervene and propose a much more reasonable sentencing recommendation, along the lines of the 40-month term that the judge ended up imposing.

    Naturally, this caused the AG to be scalded by the Democrat–media complex for purported corruption in intervening on behalf of a Trump crony, notwithstanding that he did not lift a finger to undo Stone’s multiple felony convictions and was content to send the near-septuagenarian to a penitentiary for over three years even as the COVID-based humanitarian release of convicts ensued. Moreover, Stone’s day of reckoning was at hand — he was due to surrender to begin serving his sentence on Tuesday — only because Barr’s Justice Department opposed any further delay, and Barr reportedly recommended that Trump not grant clemency. In any event, if the president had been transparent about his intentions, there would have been no cause for Justice Department infighting over Stone’s sentence. Instead, that will be the subject of congressional-hearing fireworks later this month.

    As for the rest it, we’re left with the usual unhinged commentary from people who ought to know better. Take top Mueller deputy Andrew Weissmann. After the clemency was announced, Weissmann took to Twitter to assert, “Time to put Roger Stone in the grand jury to find out what he knows about Trump but would not tell. Commutation can’t stop that.” Well, no, but the Fifth Amendment can.

    Stone is appealing his convictions. Weissmann, a longtime prosecutor who is intimately familiar with the appellate process, has to know that because Trump did not pardon Stone, the case is still on direct appeal. That means the convictions are not final as a matter of law. Stone thus maintains his Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination and cannot be forced to testify in the grand jury. He probably has scant hope of getting his convictions reversed, but he’s entitled to try.

    A lawyer of Weissmann’s acumen should not get such a basic legal point wrong, but he is so politically and emotionally invested in attacking Trump that he obviously tweeted without thinking things through.

    The tweet underscores that Weissmann — an overt Biden surrogate these days — was a terrible choice for a special-counsel probe that should have been rigorously non-partisan. He scorched the earth investigating Trump for three years; to imply that he might have nabbed the president were it not for Roger Stone’s omertà is pathetic.
    Weissmann could have immunized Stone if he believed Stone was withholding vital incriminating evidence against Trump — and then he could have prosecuted Stone for contempt if Stone resisted.



    He didn’t do that because there is no reason to think Stone had incriminating evidence. Stone was alleged to have lied about discussing WikiLeaks; that’s why he was charged only with process crimes,

    despite all of the heavy breathing about collusion in Mueller’s indictment of Stone. Weissman & Co. did not come close to proving that he or Trump had anything to do with the hacking of Democratic Party emails by Russia or by anyone else.

    The Stone episode has been farcical from the start, and it’s still not over.
    https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/...iac-democrats/

  7. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to dukkha For This Post:

    ExpressLane (07-12-2020), Stretch (07-13-2020), Truth Detector (07-12-2020)

  8. #4 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    43,479
    Thanks
    12,574
    Thanked 23,756 Times in 16,563 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,622 Times in 1,532 Posts

    Default

    Weissmann took to Twitter to assert, “Time to put Roger Stone in the grand jury to find out what he knows about Trump but would not tell. Commutation can’t stop that.” Well, no, but the Fifth Amendment can.
    ~~

    Weissmann — an overt Biden surrogate these days — was a terrible choice for a special-counsel probe that should have been rigorously non-partisan.
    He scorched the earth investigating Trump for three years; to imply that he might have nabbed the president were it not for Roger Stone’s omertà is pathetic.

    Weissmann could have immunized Stone if he believed Stone was withholding vital incriminating evidence against Trump — and then he could have prosecuted Stone for contempt if Stone resisted.

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dukkha For This Post:

    ExpressLane (07-12-2020), Truth Detector (07-12-2020)

  10. #5 | Top
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    34,321
    Thanks
    3,498
    Thanked 11,601 Times in 9,273 Posts
    Groans
    632
    Groaned 1,405 Times in 1,371 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dukkha View Post
    https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/...iac-democrats/

    Bill Clinton pardoned his own brother for felony distribution of cocaine. And a key witness in the Whitewater scandal for which he and Hillary Clinton were under investigation. And three others convicted in independent counsel Ken Starr’s probe. And Marc Rich, in what was a straight up political payoff. And his CIA director. And his HUD secretary. And eight people convicted in an investigation of his Agriculture Department.

    No surprise there: The Clintons and their supporters then, like Trump and his supporters now, regarded the special-prosecutor probes into the administration as witch hunts.

    Clinton also commuted the sentences of convicted terrorists, some of whom hadn’t even asked for clemency. Shameless as he was, though, even he couldn’t bring himself to pardon Oscar Lopez Rivera, the defiantly unrepentant FALN leader.

    President Obama took care of that.

    Obama also commuted the sentence of a U.S. soldier who passed top-secret information to WikiLeaks. He pardoned his former Joint Chiefs of Staff vice chairman, who’d been convicted of making false statements about a leak of classified information to the New York Times. And when he couldn’t get Congress to amend federal drug laws the way he wanted them amended, Obama used the pardon power to slash hundreds of sentences, under an executive initiative later sharply criticized by the Obama-appointed DOJ inspector general.
    Deflection means,Trump can't be defended.
    AM I, I AM's,AM I.
    What day is Michaelmas on?

  11. The Following User Groans At Mason Michaels For This Awful Post:

    cancel2 2022 (07-12-2020)

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mason Michaels For This Post:

    christiefan915 (07-12-2020), Phantasmal (07-12-2020)

  13. #6 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    93,649
    Thanks
    9,766
    Thanked 33,617 Times in 21,480 Posts
    Groans
    290
    Groaned 5,632 Times in 5,140 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dukkha View Post
    https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/...iac-democrats/

    Bill Clinton pardoned his own brother for felony distribution of cocaine. And a key witness in the Whitewater scandal for which he and Hillary Clinton were under investigation. And three others convicted in independent counsel Ken Starr’s probe. And Marc Rich, in what was a straight up political payoff. And his CIA director. And his HUD secretary. And eight people convicted in an investigation of his Agriculture Department.

    No surprise there: The Clintons and their supporters then, like Trump and his supporters now, regarded the special-prosecutor probes into the administration as witch hunts.

    Clinton also commuted the sentences of convicted terrorists, some of whom hadn’t even asked for clemency. Shameless as he was, though, even he couldn’t bring himself to pardon Oscar Lopez Rivera, the defiantly unrepentant FALN leader.

    President Obama took care of that.

    Obama also commuted the sentence of a U.S. soldier who passed top-secret information to WikiLeaks. He pardoned his former Joint Chiefs of Staff vice chairman, who’d been convicted of making false statements about a leak of classified information to the New York Times. And when he couldn’t get Congress to amend federal drug laws the way he wanted them amended, Obama used the pardon power to slash hundreds of sentences, under an executive initiative later sharply criticized by the Obama-appointed DOJ inspector general.
    But... but... Bill Clinton!


    I thought you supported Trump because he was going to “drain the swamp.”

  14. The Following 2 Users Groan At Jarod For This Awful Post:

    cancel2 2022 (07-12-2020), Earl (07-12-2020)

  15. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Jarod For This Post:

    Charoite (07-12-2020), Phantasmal (07-12-2020), Trumpet (07-12-2020)

  16. #7 | Top
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    52,291
    Thanks
    77,752
    Thanked 23,568 Times in 17,849 Posts
    Groans
    38,677
    Groaned 3,238 Times in 3,042 Posts
    Blog Entries
    8

    Default

    Pardons by Obama...pages..cocaine dealers...

    https://www.justice.gov/pardon/obama-pardons

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Earl For This Post:

    Stretch (07-13-2020), Truth Detector (07-12-2020)

  18. #8 | Top
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    52,291
    Thanks
    77,752
    Thanked 23,568 Times in 17,849 Posts
    Groans
    38,677
    Groaned 3,238 Times in 3,042 Posts
    Blog Entries
    8

    Default

    Commutations by Obama...pages...cocaine dealers...

    https://www.justice.gov/pardon/obama-commutations

  19. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Earl For This Post:

    Stretch (07-13-2020), Truth Detector (07-12-2020)

  20. #9 | Top
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    108,120
    Thanks
    60,501
    Thanked 35,051 Times in 26,519 Posts
    Groans
    47,393
    Groaned 4,742 Times in 4,521 Posts
    Blog Entries
    61

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Mason View Post
    Deflection means,Trump can't be defended.
    Bullshit it's called rank hypocrisy!

  21. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to cancel2 2022 For This Post:

    Earl (07-12-2020), Truth Detector (07-12-2020)

  22. #10 | Top
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    108,120
    Thanks
    60,501
    Thanked 35,051 Times in 26,519 Posts
    Groans
    47,393
    Groaned 4,742 Times in 4,521 Posts
    Blog Entries
    61

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    But... but... Bill Clinton!


    I thought you supported Trump because he was going to “drain the swamp.”
    You're supposed to be a bloody lawyer ffs, yet you appear to not understand precedent!!

  23. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to cancel2 2022 For This Post:

    Earl (07-12-2020), Truth Detector (07-12-2020)

  24. #11 | Top
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vinland
    Posts
    39,851
    Thanks
    41,529
    Thanked 10,833 Times in 8,248 Posts
    Groans
    11,150
    Groaned 5,899 Times in 5,299 Posts
    Blog Entries
    17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grajonca View Post
    Bullshit it's called rank hypocrisy!
    No, you stupid asshole.

    Trump can only be judged after he is out of office, he isn't done yet, and it is too soon to tell.

    This thread is highly ignorant muckraking.
    It is the responsibility of every American citizen to own a modern military rifle.

  25. #12 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    43,479
    Thanks
    12,574
    Thanked 23,756 Times in 16,563 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,622 Times in 1,532 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    But... but... Bill Clinton!
    I thought you supported Trump because he was going to “drain the swamp.”
    I can’t get too whipped up over President Trump’s commutation of Roger Stone’s 40-month sentence for
    non-violent criminal obstruction of a bogusly based and ridiculously over-prosecuted investigation.
    ////

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to dukkha For This Post:

    Truth Detector (07-12-2020)

  27. #13 | Top
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    20,422
    Thanks
    1,794
    Thanked 11,071 Times in 6,782 Posts
    Groans
    888
    Groaned 1,829 Times in 1,694 Posts

    Default

    Remember how outraged conservatives were about those actions?

  28. #14 | Top
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    108,120
    Thanks
    60,501
    Thanked 35,051 Times in 26,519 Posts
    Groans
    47,393
    Groaned 4,742 Times in 4,521 Posts
    Blog Entries
    61

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rune View Post
    No, you stupid asshole.

    Trump can only be judged after he is out of office, he isn't done yet, and it is too soon to tell.

    This thread is highly ignorant muckraking.
    He hasn't done anything close to the egregious behaviour of BJ Clinton, up to now!

  29. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to cancel2 2022 For This Post:

    anonymoose (07-12-2020), Truth Detector (07-12-2020)

  30. #15 | Top
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Steeler Nation
    Posts
    64,532
    Thanks
    65,153
    Thanked 38,090 Times in 25,663 Posts
    Groans
    5,815
    Groaned 2,614 Times in 2,498 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Earl View Post
    Commutations by Obama...pages...cocaine dealers...

    https://www.justice.gov/pardon/obama-commutations
    Give me a break, Mr. Earl. Stone's "process crimes" were felonies under federal law. No matter how hard you try to whitewash them they are still process CRIMES, not process foul balls or process jaywalking.


    “What greater gift than the love of a cat.”
    ― Charles Dickens

Similar Threads

  1. White-hater Oprah Winfrey howls about covid ravaging black americans.
    By Text Drivers are Killers in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-15-2020, 10:47 PM
  2. What's the Difference Between a Pardon and a Commutation?
    By kudzu in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 06-10-2018, 01:01 PM
  3. DEMOCRATS' sparks of divinity in the news
    By Legion in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-01-2018, 07:39 AM
  4. Michelle Obama Sparks Fury...
    By Granule in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 118
    Last Post: 08-02-2012, 10:43 AM
  5. CPAC Sparks Controversy
    By DamnYankee in forum General Politics Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-26-2011, 07:41 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •