Jack (07-10-2020)
Jack (07-10-2020)
I know that is what you happened to stumble across via a google search, but in all the philisophy and literature classes I took, Romanticism was a wide-ranging phenomena in literature, philosophy, art. And to that end, I give more credit to Romantic and Transcendentalist traditions for playing a more important peripheral role in abolitionist sentiments, than the 18th century enlightenment thinkers ever did.
My bottom line is that I really cannot think of anything Voltaire, Thomas Jefferson, Adam Smith, or Ben Franklin did to end slavery or to inspire people at an emotional level to be repulsed by slavery.
The abolitionist movement was not driven by reason, higher intellect, or the scientific method.
And that is why Enlightenment traditions were not driving the abolitionists.
Abolition was driven by emotion, disgust, personal conscience, soul-searching. And I believe that is more aligned with the Romantic and Transcendental traditions.
Wrapping up, the fact is it is a historical fact that liberal Christians ( along with deists and agnostics) were the vanguard of the abolitionist movement. It is merely your opinion that in doing so, the Christians were acting counter to their faith.
Blackwater Lunchbreak (07-10-2020)
Don't be a trolly boi. I took classes on philosophy and literature when I was in college too. Romanticism was mostly about art. The philosophy was just Enlightenment thinking with an extra importance placed on emotion.
I think I already explained how the roots of the modern Abolitionist movement were in the Enlightenment and the liberal Christians you're talking about were influenced by philosophy and went against Christian scripture and tradition to fight against slavery. You can bring up the fact again and again that there were Christians against slavery, but that's beside the point.My bottom line is that I really cannot think of anything Voltaire, Thomas Jefferson, Adam Smith, or Ben Franklin did to end slavery or to inspire people at an emotional level to be repulsed by slavery.
The abolitionist movement was not driven by reason, higher intellect, or the scientific method.
And that is why Enlightenment traditions were not driving the abolitionists.
Abolition was driven by emotion, disgust, personal conscience, soul-searching. And I believe that is more aligned with the Romantic and Transcendental traditions.
Wrapping up the fact is it is a historical fact that liberal Christians were the vanguard of the abolitionist movement. It is merely your opinion that in doing so, they were acting counter to their faith.
Christianity is not monotheistic. It has as many gods as Romans did. The devil is a powerful god. The father, son and holy ghost are 3 gods. They cobbled together a weak ass explanation because they wanted to pretend they had advanced to monotheism, they did not. There are angels. There are devils minions. There are plenty of powerful spirits and gods.There are eternal saints. The Virgin Mary is prayed to. Christianity is ass deep in gods.
My humble apologies
Romatism was a broad based intellectual movement which included more than just art. Art and literature are always just an expression of what is going on in society at large. Transcendentalism was an important part of the Romantic tradition.
Of course, defining intellectual movements is totally subjective.
There is no proof either of us can provide as to who gets the majority of credit for abolition. In reality it was probably due mostly to black people.
For me the bottom line is that the abolition movement did not get into high gear until decades after the commonly accepted end of the Enlightenment era. In fact, it coincided exactly with the period of time that cultural, intellectual, and philosophical trends associated with Romanticism and Transcendentalism held sway.f
But we can say that the abolition movement started after the West stopped basing laws solely on the Bible and Christian tradition in favor of logic and Greek philosophy, right?
And the Bible does permit slavery and traditionally Christian societies have allowed slavery.
Again, not saying there were no Christians who fought to end slavery. But when you take all that into account, we can say it's more likely that modern Abolitionism's roots are in the Enlightenment.
Religion has been involved in crimes against humanity, as have all other human institutions.
The bible is written by humans, is inconsistent, nebulous, and sometimes contradictory. I take Saint Augustine's belief that slavery is against God's intent, and results from human sin. Saint Augustine is no garden variety Saint. He is the most prominent church father of western Christianity. Enslaving other Christians has been a violation of Christian theology for over a thousand years. So Christians were placing limitations and prohibitions on slavery long before some other cultures, and an entire millennium before the enlightenment era.
I actually think that secular authorities and capitalism is what kept enslavement of Africans going as long as it did. And it was Quakers, Mennonites, Transcendentalists, liberal New England congregationalist Christians, and free black activists who drove the abolitionist movement. The Enlightenment thinkers had been dead for decades when the Abolitionists really gained purchase and credibility.
Blackwater Lunchbreak (07-10-2020)
morality is a set of beliefs, attitudes, and behaviors that facilitate voluntary, cooperative and mutually beneficial relationships.
Trump Wins,
by definition https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/trump
morality is a set of beliefs, attitudes, and behaviors that facilitate voluntary, cooperative and mutually beneficial relationships.
Trump Wins,
by definition https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/trump
morality is a set of beliefs, attitudes, and behaviors that facilitate voluntary, cooperative and mutually beneficial relationships.
Trump Wins,
by definition https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/trump
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
They recognize the existence of a God, and the majority of the Deists were from Christian cultures. The Founding Fathers that were Deists were mostly Christian, for example. It is true that you don't have to be Christian to be Deist, but the overlap is pretty thorough.
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