An Independence Day Message for Black Americans

[Saudade]

How so? Do you think the Constitution was just something a bunch of racists wrote?

[archives]

It means most Americans, because they have never left their sanctuaries, have no idea how good they have it here. Nothing could be truer.

There it is again, translation, those that question American history are wrong because they "have no idea how good they have it here," as I said, if you are using as your measurement of success a comparison to the lowest common denominator you aren't successful

[Saudade]

Largely predictable, read all the same themes elsewhere applied to others other than specified black people, but what kills it right from the offset is the line "when measured against other countries," none of us live in "other countries," we live here, and recognizing shortcomings as part of our history only makes us greater as a nation not waving the flag

Recognizing shortcomings is fine, but without looking at other countries at the same time, you lose perspective.

Granted, the West has had this problem for a long time now. There's a reason why many non-Western countries are happier in general than many Western nations. It's because these people understand the value of a common culture and common values. They take pride in their identity.

Ironically, the same side that emphasizes identity politics doesn't want any part of focusing on national identity. That's "racist", apparently. Although it only seems to be racist when a majority white country does it. Few call the Chinese racist for their nationalism. Few call Pakistanis racist for their nationalism. Few call Indians racist for theirs, and so on.

[archives]

How so? Do you think the Constitution was just something a bunch of racists wrote?

Actually, based upon today's understanding, yes, least the majority of them, did you think coming up with something as the three fifths compromise was looking at others in an equitable manner?

[Saudade]

Actually, based upon today's understanding, yes, least the majority of them, did you think coming up with something as the three fifths compromise was looking at others in an equitable manner?

So your answer to history is presentism. You apply today's standards to yesteryear's people? That shows a gross lack of understanding of history or culture.

It also paves the way for the same thing that happened in Maoist China -- the rejection of the Four Olds. Granted, I realize that is the goal of a lot of the left.

[T. A. Gardner]

What would the alternative, the one presumably all the protesters want, look like?

[anatta]

So your answer to history is presentism. You apply today's standards to yesteryear's people? That shows a gross lack of understanding of history or culture.

It also paves the way for the same thing that happened in Maoist China -- the rejection of the Four Olds. Granted, I realize that is the goal of a lot of the left.

excellent analogy (4 Olds). this is a cultural revolution, and there are Maoists in the streets.

More then that there is a Maoist perception taking hold thru BLM/NYTimes "1619 Project" that
America is a racist construct from the beginning and cannot redeem itself no matter what we do

That's a crippling perspective for blacks and whites -and a fallacy as well

[Saudade]

What would the alternative, the one presumably all the protesters want, look like?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto

[AProudLefty]

you miss the point. this is the land of opportunity for all -and that IS a valid comparrision
And it is also extant -living in the past doesn't help anyone -including blacks

The problem is that it's the fallacy of relative privation.

Example: "Shut the fuck up and eat your veggies because there's starving children in Africa!"

[Geeko Sportivo]

How so? Do you think the Constitution was just something a bunch of racists wrote?

No, I think they were misogynists as well as racists.

Anymore brilliant questions?

[Saudade]

The problem is that it's the fallacy of relative privation.

Example: "Shut the fuck up and eat your veggies because there's starving children in Africa!"

Fair enough, but there's a similar logical problem with the presentism that the social left is applying to historical figures.

Ultimately, a balance is needed. Historical figures cannot be held to standards outside of their times, while critiques of this society must be made in the context of what has already been established in human society before.

Anyone demanding utopian conditions is unreasonable. Incremental reforms are the most logical and must reflect the limitations of human nature.

[Geeko Sportivo]

Tell that to the black man that wrote it. You fucking racist.

Tell it to the black men who read it!

[Saudade]

No, I think they were misogynists as well as racists.

Anymore brilliant questions?

Then you are incredibly ignorant. If you hold historical figures to standards outside of their time period, your understanding of history is on par with an elementary school student.

[anatta]

The problem is that it's the fallacy of relative privation.

Example: "Shut the fuck up and eat your veggies because there's starving children in Africa!"

no nation is perfect-men/women are imperfect. But you are saying the only metric is perfection
The enemy of the good is perfection; strive for it but do not let perfection be the metric

[archives]

So your answer to history is presentism. You apply today's standards to yesteryear's people? That shows a gross lack of understanding of history or culture.

It also paves the way for the same thing that happened in Maoist China -- the rejection of the Four Olds. Granted, I realize that is the goal of a lot of the left.

First off, the question was "do you think the Constitution was just something a bunch of racists wrote?" To which I clearly specified "actually, based upon today's understanding, yes," which is true, no on can deny that fact

The reality is that you accept that fact, then you can continue to understand history in its proper context, but to deny the obvious and move forward is hypocritical and makes it harder for those who were the victims of those injustices to understand and accept

And the China thing is just weird, no offense intended