Question for the mask experts

[Walt]

It's nice to be in a smaller country...particularly an island.

It must really suck for the other two countries in North America to be stuck with us.

[Into the Night]

It is not "everywhere".

It is everywhere. It can survive in dry air for hours or even days.

It is not in New Zealand, nor in most of Taiwan or several other countries.

Yes it is.

They were able to stop it through testing,

Testing doesn't cure an infection.

contact tracing,

Tracing doesn't cure an infection.

social distancing,

6 feet does not stop a virus.

AND MASKS.

Masks do not stop a virus.

Immune systems are what stop a virus. UV light can stop a virus.

[gfm7175]

Just one person with a contagious disease would be a concern. 1% of the population with a contagious disease is a disaster.

A fraction of a percent (aka "statistically insignificant") is now a "disaster"? Hahahahahahaha

[Into the Night]

I am seeing that in a couple of cases. An associate of mine who I was trying to get a job for refuses to wear a mask, refuses to use a clear backpack, and just about everything else. It is really bizarre that he keeps complaining on Facebook that he can't pay his mortgage, but is refusing excellent paying work.

You are making shit up now.

People who refuse to comply with safety rules

Masks do not stop a virus. They are not safe against viruses.

where they work should not get unemployment.

You don't get to speak for an employer. You only get to speak for you. Trying to dictate to an employer what he should do is fascism.

They have been offered a job,

WRONG. He HAS a job, unlike YOU apparently.

and decided they prefer unemployment.

He has a job.

I am tired of hearing their complaining,

He has a job. I am tired of hearing your complaining.

when there are so many with real problems to complain about.

Define 'real'. Define 'problems'. Be specific.

[gfm7175]

Everyone who spreads AIDS says, "I don't have AIDS". Given that they spread AIDS, we know they are wrong. Maybe you are right, or maybe you are wrong. I will not have sex with you for so many reasons, but if I hypothetically did, I would not believe you, and wear a condom.

Many of the super-spreaders of Covid-19 are claiming they do not have Covid-19. They need to wear masks to reduce their super spreading.

They can't spread a disease that they don't have...

[Into the Night]

A fraction of a percent (aka "statistically insignificant") is now a "disaster"? Hahahahahahaha

So it would seem to him!

[Walt]

A fraction of a percent (aka "statistically insignificant") is now a "disaster"? Hahahahahahaha

The population of the Earth is now 7.8 billion. One percent of that is 78 million. If your cutoff for a disaster is 78 million dead, that is a very high bar to hit.

We are having two 9/11's a week in deaths in America. I will leave it up to the reader to decide if that is a disaster or not.

[gfm7175]

Some employers are requiring masks on their employees at all times, others don't give a shit.

Yup. My employer is requiring them for our maintenance people (and any vendor who comes into our office is required to wear one) but masks are not a requirement for office people such as myself. They gave us hand sanitizer though. I don't make use it since I figure that using the soap in the bathroom after using the bathroom is quite sufficient. My coworker uses the hand sanitizer a few times a day though.

[gfm7175]

The population of the Earth is now 7.8 billion. One percent of that is 78 million. If your cutoff for a disaster is 78 million dead, that is a very high bar to hit.

We are having two 9/11's a week in deaths in America. I will leave it up to the reader to decide if that is a disaster or not.

Fear mongering.

With regard to the current world population, 78 million is a rather insignificant number, statistically speaking.

And no, not a disaster... people die all the time... people are also born all the time...

[gfm7175]

People are out there not wearing masks and enjoying the summer as best as they can, despite people like you.

Yup. I don't wear a mask and I am enjoying my Summer just fine, not endlessly worried about whether someone might be sick or not. I went out hiking at a State Park today. Many people were gathered on the side of the lake with their grills, not social distancing at all despite the numerous signs telling them to. It was nice to see! But on the other hand, there were also (not many, but still more than I would have expected) some people wearing masks while hiking... I think they're annoying enough to wear the way it is, let alone trying to hike while wearing one...

[Into the Night]

The population of the Earth is now 7.8 billion. One percent of that is 78 million. If your cutoff for a disaster is 78 million dead, that is a very high bar to hit.

We are having two 9/11's a week in deaths in America. I will leave it up to the reader to decide if that is a disaster or not.

Infection is not death, dumbass.

[Into the Night]

Fear mongering.

With regard to the current world population, 78 million is a rather insignificant number, statistically speaking.

And no, not a disaster... people die all the time... people are also born all the time...

The numbers are for infections, not deaths.
Currently, approx. 0.1% of the world population has been infected by Covid, total (infections YTD). Approx. 0.06% of the world population has died from Covid related pneumonia (Covid itself does not kill) (deaths YTD). Source: WHO

This is far less than even 1% of the population.

He is trying to make an epidemic out of nothing. He is fear mongering.

[Walt]

You don't get to speak for an employer. You only get to speak for you.

I am both an employer and the representative of several employers, so legally speaking I do get to speak for several employers. There is a lot of legal pressure on us to use masks. You may claim they do not work, but the rest of us believe they do. More importantly, government departments are saying they do.

I cannot hire Eric right now, nor do I Know anyone who can. He is toxic.

Trying to dictate to an employer what he should do is fascism.

Clients dictate to contractors who dictate to subcontractors. There are standards dictated to everyone by governments. I do not think of this as fascism, but maybe that is because I am an adult.

For instance, to get into a server farm, I need to wear a mask, get my temperature taken, and have only clear backpacks. I agree, the clear backpack looks stupid, and I do not like it much. But I would rather be paid $500 an hour with a stupid backpack, then be unemployed in the middle of an economic depression.

WRONG. He HAS a job

Eric is claiming he does not have a job. Where is he working?

Define 'real'. Define 'problems'. Be specific.

People who cannot find jobs, or people who have to take low paying jobs seems like a real problem. Eric is turning down a mid-six figure income, because he does not wear a mask, or have a clear backpack. When I donated my time giving financial advise at a charity, I met women (and even men) who prostituted themselves for money. Eric will not even wear a clear backpack for money.

Worse yet, he insults us for doing what we have to in order to keep America functioning. I am sorry, but the more I talk to Night, the more I realize I want nothing to do with Eric.

I will defend the masks, but I am not going to defend the clear backpack. It is stupid. The security guards have no idea whether I downloaded a bunch of data onto my laptop or not. The clear backpack does nothing for them. It does mean they do not have to touch the backpack, but touching the backpack did nothing.

BUT, I will defend following the rules of a client/employer, even if they are stupid. It is their building, and they are following the government guidelines.

[Walt]

They can't spread a disease that they don't have...

Everyone who spreads the disease (whether it is AIDS or Covid-19) says they do not have it. If everyone doing a random sexual encounter wears a condom, we can stop most sexual transmission of HIV. If everyone doing a random spacial encounter wears a mask, we can stop most transmission of Covid-19.

Stopping most is good enough. If we get the transmission rate below 1, sooner or later both dies out.

[Walt]

Yup. My employer is requiring them for our maintenance people (and any vendor who comes into our office is required to wear one) but masks are not a requirement for office people such as myself. They gave us hand sanitizer though. I don't make use it since I figure that using the soap in the bathroom after using the bathroom is quite sufficient. My coworker uses the hand sanitizer a few times a day though.

Hand sanitizer kills more viruses than soap and water. If you are not wearing a mask, you could be giving Covid-19 to everyone else in the office. It is a confined space, which makes transmission easier. The air flow from an air conditioner could really carry the droplets.

Suffices to say we are in very different parts of the country, with very different health standards.