For 2,000 years Jews have rejected the Christian idea of Jesus as messiah. Why?

[Mika-El]

The original thread claims to speak for ALL Jews. That in itself is illogical in that the individual who started the thread assumes this without having ever spoken to the Jews he claims he speaks for.

Next he projects on to them the assumption they reject his interpretation of the New Testament as the grounds to reject the concept of Jesus as saviour.

In fact not just Jews, but billions of non Jews including Christians would not agree with his inyterpretation of the New Testament.

Next this Jew like many Christians and many people of many beliefs has no one distinct philosophy or set of views.

What I and many would argue is that the New Testament is in fact a compilation of second hand writings, brought together from a wide range of original scripts which were then edited so no one knows what the original scripts said and for that matter we do not know the degree of re-writing that was done.

Next those persons who did the re-editing are not necessarily known. There is reference to a council arranged by King Constantine who ordered all the Christian writings of his day merged with prevailing pagain beliefs to create a hybrid faith to prevent a civl war between Pagans and the then underground movement of Christians who were still in fact Jews. Mich of the New Testament refers to pagan concepts not Christian ones which would have been a reformed movement of Jews re-interpreting not the Bible but the method in which the Talmud should be carried out.

The actual teachings of Jesus regarding charity, healing, conducting oneself are from the Talmud and there is evidence that the Talmud which is a constantly changing and evolving code from which to constantly debate the meaning of Jewish laws including the Old Testament to find new meanings-is traced all the way back to the same ancestors of Hinduism and other Eastern faiths. In fact the teachings of Christ are variations of Teekam Olam, which are codes of behaviour that begin when humans decide to prevent killing each other, they decided to repress their negative primal instincts and so came up with ways to do that.

Most people in a modern sense read nothing literally. We see holy books as stories, allegories which were drafted long ago with unknown contexts to try make it easier to understand rules of behaviour designed to promote civilized behaviour.

There is evidence to believe if Christ did exist he never stated he was THE messiah but that all of us are messiahs in the sense we choose to be born into our lives to struggle with two equal components, evil and good and through that constant struggle or dialetic we contrast the extremes which fuels are evolution spiritually.

We choose life as a lesson to develop or spiritual enlightenment. Without the struggle and contradictions of the extremes, we could not understand new things.

In that sense our struggle of good versus evil is analogous to the negative and electric charges in side the nucleaus of an atom.

In fact in Judaism the passages of the Old Testament are said to be analogous to the layers of an onion. There are an infinite number of layers or possible meanings and each time you find a level of understanding, it leads to another and another and like an onion it causes tears or discomfort to the viewer as he or she more deeply finds meanings.

In the actual teachings of Judaism, our concepts would not be that different than Eastern disciplines such a Daoism, Hinduism or Buddhism and this can especially seen in the Kabala a book reserved for those said to be old and enlightened enough not to fear certain concepts that go past the 5 senses of perception.

In fact the standard versions of Judaism and Christianity as Nietzche said are reinterpretations of these religions using the perspective of slaves perceiving a hostile world of authority. Its not necessarily the actual intended version of either and of course today most believers in both faces have allowed themselves to be subordinated to a world of materialistic values where the amount of power we have over others and the amount of materials we can accumulate and sell to others who do not have them, create our value.

In true Judeo-Christianity, value is not dictated by material wealth or power over others but from the ability to in the most simple of actions heal the world through unreserved and unconditional acts of kindness.

Each time we do something generous and benevolent no matter how small, we set off a ripple effect of positive reactions which heals the world and helps us all to grow. On the other hand each time we do something negative, we set off a negative ripple effect of negative reactions which injure the world and harms us all.

So in that sense each of us is a messiah in that we were born or came from something greater then ourselves and can heal or harm depending on our actions.

In this concept all life forms are seen as interconnected levels of energy and these levels of energy can occur on an infinite number of levels or dimensions. Each one of us so to speak creates our own realities, miracles, universes through our perceptions.

Its a belief system that today is dwarfed by those reading the New Testament in a very rigid, limited manner to create a simplistic formula that you either agree with or are are rejected as not agreeing with. As the thread starter shows, the religion is used to pronounce a very narrow, black and white postulation.

I doubt the thread starter could fathom why Jesus if he did exist would have seen no need to refer to himself as unique or the ONLY messiah and would have in fact called any such description antithetical to the concept that all life, not just his own was equally as divine.

In fact many of the concepts I speak of are shared by Christians and people of many faiths. It doesn't mean we are anti Christian, anti-Jesus, anti anything. It means we see all life forms as equally as divine. It doesn't change any positive lessons one can take from the Bible Old or New Testament versions, but it does mean we would question using the Bible to create only one meaning and to define others as inferior, unGodly, evil, wrong.

In fact the concept of Satan would be defined as we do "God", abstract forms of negative and positive energy or thought that people tap into to either do good or bad.

I doubt the original thread starter would understand a thing I said but it explains why I try tell him I no more rejct Jesus than I accept him. I do not accept or reject anyone or anything. I remain a witness to life and all its lessons. I do not use any lesson to stop me from conceiving of more than one possible meaning.

I believe values should be used to incite more searchs for more values. I would not use a specific code of belief in Jesus as a pretext to exclude the values of others.

To me that is a perversion of what he probably taught if he did in fact exist. Even that remains subject to debate as 'Jesus" could be a hybrid concept for more than one leader. If it was one leader, to believe second hand edited stories of what he was reported to have said hundreds of years after his death and altered through re-writes and distortions from language translations is illogical.

[Cancel 2020.2]

The original thread claims to speak for ALL Jews. That in itself is illogical in that the individual who started the thread assumes this without having ever spoken to the Jews he claims he speaks for.

Next he projects on to them the assumption they reject his interpretation of the New Testament as the grounds to reject the concept of Jesus as saviour.

In fact not just Jews, but billions of non Jews including Christians would not agree with his inyterpretation of the New Testament.

Next this Jew like many Christians and many people of many beliefs has no one distinct philosophy or set of views.

What I and many would argue is that the New Testament is in fact a compilation of second hand writings, brought together from a wide range of original scripts which were then edited so no one knows what the original scripts said and for that matter we do not know the degree of re-writing that was done.

Next those persons who did the re-editing are not necessarily known. There is reference to a council arranged by King Constantine who ordered all the Christian writings of his day merged with prevailing pagain beliefs to create a hybrid faith to prevent a civl war between Pagans and the then underground movement of Christians who were still in fact Jews. Mich of the New Testament refers to pagan concepts not Christian ones which would have been a reformed movement of Jews re-interpreting not the Bible but the method in which the Talmud should be carried out.

The actual teachings of Jesus regarding charity, healing, conducting oneself are from the Talmud and there is evidence that the Talmud which is a constantly changing and evolving code from which to constantly debate the meaning of Jewish laws including the Old Testament to find new meanings-is traced all the way back to the same ancestors of Hinduism and other Eastern faiths. In fact the teachings of Christ are variations of Teekam Olam, which are codes of behaviour that begin when humans decide to prevent killing each other, they decided to repress their negative primal instincts and so came up with ways to do that.

Most people in a modern sense read nothing literally. We see holy books as stories, allegories which were drafted long ago with unknown contexts to try make it easier to understand rules of behaviour designed to promote civilized behaviour.

There is evidence to believe if Christ did exist he never stated he was THE messiah but that all of us are messiahs in the sense we choose to be born into our lives to struggle with two equal components, evil and good and through that constant struggle or dialetic we contrast the extremes which fuels are evolution spiritually.

We choose life as a lesson to develop or spiritual enlightenment. Without the struggle and contradictions of the extremes, we could not understand new things.

In that sense our struggle of good versus evil is analogous to the negative and electric charges in side the nucleaus of an atom.

In fact in Judaism the passages of the Old Testament are said to be analogous to the layers of an onion. There are an infinite number of layers or possible meanings and each time you find a level of understanding, it leads to another and another and like an onion it causes tears or discomfort to the viewer as he or she more deeply finds meanings.

In the actual teachings of Judaism, our concepts would not be that different than Eastern disciplines such a Daoism, Hinduism or Buddhism and this can especially seen in the Kabala a book reserved for those said to be old and enlightened enough not to fear certain concepts that go past the 5 senses of perception.

In fact the standard versions of Judaism and Christianity as Nietzche said are reinterpretations of these religions using the perspective of slaves perceiving a hostile world of authority. Its not necessarily the actual intended version of either and of course today most believers in both faces have allowed themselves to be subordinated to a world of materialistic values where the amount of power we have over others and the amount of materials we can accumulate and sell to others who do not have them, create our value.

In true Judeo-Christianity, value is not dictated by material wealth or power over others but from the ability to in the most simple of actions heal the world through unreserved and unconditional acts of kindness.

Each time we do something generous and benevolent no matter how small, we set off a ripple effect of positive reactions which heals the world and helps us all to grow. On the other hand each time we do something negative, we set off a negative ripple effect of negative reactions which injure the world and harms us all.

So in that sense each of us is a messiah in that we were born or came from something greater then ourselves and can heal or harm depending on our actions.

In this concept all life forms are seen as interconnected levels of energy and these levels of energy can occur on an infinite number of levels or dimensions. Each one of us so to speak creates our own realities, miracles, universes through our perceptions.

Its a belief system that today is dwarfed by those reading the New Testament in a very rigid, limited manner to create a simplistic formula that you either agree with or are are rejected as not agreeing with. As the thread starter shows, the religion is used to pronounce a very narrow, black and white postulation.

I doubt the thread starter could fathom why Jesus if he did exist would have seen no need to refer to himself as unique or the ONLY messiah and would have in fact called any such description antithetical to the concept that all life, not just his own was equally as divine.

In fact many of the concepts I speak of are shared by Christians and people of many faiths. It doesn't mean we are anti Christian, anti-Jesus, anti anything. It means we see all life forms as equally as divine. It doesn't change any positive lessons one can take from the Bible Old or New Testament versions, but it does mean we would question using the Bible to create only one meaning and to define others as inferior, unGodly, evil, wrong.

In fact the concept of Satan would be defined as we do "God", abstract forms of negative and positive energy or thought that people tap into to either do good or bad.

I doubt the original thread starter would understand a thing I said but it explains why I try tell him I no more rejct Jesus than I accept him. I do not accept or reject anyone or anything. I remain a witness to life and all its lessons. I do not use any lesson to stop me from conceiving of more than one possible meaning.

I believe values should be used to incite more searchs for more values. I would not use a specific code of belief in Jesus as a pretext to exclude the values of others.

To me that is a perversion of what he probably taught if he did in fact exist. Even that remains subject to debate as 'Jesus" could be a hybrid concept for more than one leader. If it was one leader, to believe second hand edited stories of what he was reported to have said hundreds of years after his death and altered through re-writes and distortions from language translations is illogical.

Thank you for an absolutely fantastic post. You are very, very wise.

[ParachuteAdams]

Because they're allowed. They didn't do anything wrong?

Religious belief refers to attitudes towards mythological, supernatural,
or spiritual aspects of a religion. Religious belief is distinct from religious
practice and from religious behaviours – with some believers not practicing
religion and some practitioners not believing religion.


First Amendment to the United States Constitution


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble,
and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[Cancel 2020.2]

Because they're allowed. They didn't do anything wrong?

Religious belief refers to attitudes towards mythological, supernatural,
or spiritual aspects of a religion. Religious belief is distinct from religious
practice and from religious behaviours – with some believers not practicing
religion and some practitioners not believing religion.


First Amendment to the United States Constitution


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble,
and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Thanks for yet ANOTHER oddball post!

[Mason Melchizedek]

Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because:

Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.
Jewish belief is based on national revelation.
But first, some background: What exactly is the Messiah?

The word "Messiah" is an English rendering of the Hebrew word Mashiach, which means "anointed." It usually refers to a person initiated into God's service by being anointed with oil. (Exodus 29:7, 1-Kings 1:39, 2-Kings 9:3)

(1) Jesus Did Not Fulfill the Messianic Prophecies
What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? One of the central themes of biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. (Isaiah 2:1-4, 32:15-18, 60:15-18; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34)

Specifically, the Bible says he will:

Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world – on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be the Messiah.

Because no one has ever fulfilled the Bible's description of this future King, Jews still await the coming of the Messiah. All past Messianic claimants, including Jesus of Nazareth, Bar Cochba and Shabbtai Tzvi have been rejected.

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists.

https://www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html


Christian Proof-Texting

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge...proof-texting/

"Before Abraham I Am"