Reply With QuoteGuno צְבִי (06-22-2020), Iolo/Penderyn (06-22-2020)
Diversity Makes Greatness
What Sherman Did For America Was Save It
What Sherman Did For America Was To Save It By Destroying Atlanta, Cutting Georgia In Half, And Handing Lincoln An Election Victory.
It had to be done.
He knew what he was doing. He knew it was horrible, but he also believed it was necessary to end the war and thus end the carnage and destruction. He didn't like war, but he was very skilled at fighting it. He also violated the Emancipation Proclamation, which sadly resulted in the deaths of many freedmen. Sherman did not fight to end slavery. He fought to save the USA.
"By August, Republicans across the country were experiencing feelings of extreme anxiety, fearing that Lincoln would be defeated. The outlook was so grim that Thurlow Weed told the president directly that his "re-election was an impossibility." Acknowledging this, Lincoln wrote and signed a pledge that, if he should lose the election, he would nonetheless defeat the Confederacy by an all-out military effort before turning over the White House:[146]
'This morning, as for some days past, it seems exceedingly probable that this Administration will not be re-elected. Then it will be my duty to so co-operate with the President elect, as to save the Union between the election and the inauguration; as he will have secured his election on such ground that he cannot possibly save it afterwards.'[147]
Lincoln's re-election prospects grew brighter after the Union Navy seized Mobile Bay in late August and General Sherman captured Atlanta a few weeks later.[148] " wiki
This is long, (about an hour) but if you want some very informative viewing you will learn that Lincoln was not looking very good to win the presidency, and needed something to change or he would lose. If Lincoln lost, the USA would have been broken up into two smaller nations sharing a history, an uneasy border, a lot of resentment, and the simmering potential for more conflict:
Here is the URL if you want to copy it or open it in a new window.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8kSUDp2BC0
Because Lincoln was assassinated, all hopes for ending the conflict surrounding the Civil War died with him. We have lived with that conflict ever since.
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Guno צְבִי (06-22-2020), Iolo/Penderyn (06-22-2020)
Diversity Makes Greatness
If Sherman did not hand Lincoln this victory in Atlanta, Lincoln would have lost the 1864 election. His opponent was running on a platform of making a truce with the South, giving up on saving the Union or saving the Constitution. To allow States to leave as they please would have destroyed the USA.
To save America, Atlanta had to be destroyed.
Last edited by PoliTalker; 06-22-2020 at 07:25 AM.
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Diversity Makes Greatness
The Emancipation Proclamation declared that slaves freed by Union troops in the rebel states were free and to be protected by Union Troops.
Sherman took Atlanta, but then knew he faced the same problem in holding it that the South did. Holding Atlanta meant depending on a long and vulnerable supply line. He knew he could not stay.
He also knew that everything which might be used for the Confederate war effort had to be destroyed in order to bring the war to a quicker end.
For that reason, he destroyed food production and manufacturing in Atlanta and all along the way to Savannah.
He had to go to Savannah because Confederate General Hood had circled around to the west and was in the process of cutting Sherman off from returning to the North. By going to Savannah, Sherman could get resupplied by sea.
Sherman was brilliant, and it reawakened support in the North for winning the war, and thus gave Lincoln the victory that was needed to finish the grueling job.
Sherman's troops collected a cadre of feed slaves who followed them along to Savannah. Sherman, fearing that there would be insufficient food and supplies ahead, purposely cut off the freed slaves by destroying a bridge after he crossed it. This was in direct violation of the Emancipation Proclamation.
Many of those slaves were recaptured by their slave holders and thus lost their freedom.
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Verified User
Imperfect humans acting imperfectly. What a surprise. You have to admire people who take decisive action. This is true of people i agree with and those I don't. The easiest thing in the world is to do nothing. People fail to act all the time for fear of failure or ridicule or condemnation. Thank God we have had people in the past willing to make hard choices. I fear those people are becoming fewer in number every yearOriginally Posted by PoliTalker
PoliTalker (06-22-2020)
Honoring my oath
No, it didn't have to be done. Neither did Lincoln have to invade the South. What you are doing is justifying mass murder for political reasons.
It's the equivalent of Captain Smith of the Titanic executing passengers who didn't have a seat on a lifeboat for humanitarian reasons. "It had to be done".
The RMS Titanic had 2224 passengers but only enough lifeboats for 1,178 people. Due to design flaws, not all of the lifeboats could be launched on a ship down by the bow. Over 1500 people died, mostly by hypothermia in the freezing waters.
"It had to be done" is as much bullshit as "Bombing for Peace" and "We had to destroy the village in order to save it".
Anyone who says "it had to be done" should never, ever question the US use of nukes, Vietnam, Iraq or any other action. "It had to be done".
"Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"
Nordberg (06-22-2020)
Verified User
We didn't bomb Hiroshima or Nagasaki to save either one of those cities specifically. We did it because swift and severe decision making on our part made it abundantly clear to the Japanese that continuing the war would have been far more devastating for them than for us. They made the right choice.
Nordberg (06-22-2020)
Honoring my oath
Agreed it was the right choice. How many times have you seen Liberals say we didn't have to use the bombs? How many times have you seen them say "Japan was about to surrender. The military just wanted to test their new toys"?
It's hypocritical of anyone to justify mass killing for political purposes when those purposes suit their agenda and then for them to condemn that action when it doesn't suit their agenda.
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Dutch Uncle,
What Sherman did broke the back of the South's military capability. This resulted in Lincoln getting reelected, and making it extremely difficult for the South to continue waging war against the North.
In the statement "It had to be done," the meaning was the belief that unless it was done, the United States would have been broken up.
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Verified User
I don't take anything leftists say with much regard but I know they present a significant danger to America. The terrorsists have even gotten out of their way as they realize the left will take us down faster than they could.
Honoring my oath
So you agree that massacring a village like My Lai is necessary if it furthers the cause of the war. I disagree. What Sherman did was a war crime by today's standards. To praise him for doing it is like praising a slaver because he rarely hanged his slaves, only beat them when necessary and it was all completely legal at the time. Sorry, man, but I'm not buying it.
Diversity Makes Greatness
The South was fighting a losing battle with itself.
The importation of slaves had already been outlawed.
The South was OK with this because they already had plenty, and slaves make more slaves.
The South really didn't want too many slaves out of fear that they would revolt.
But the South faced a problem here. Slaves already outnumbered whites. Even without more importation, the numbers were growing, not shrinking. Whites feared that if slaves became freedmen that they would eventually take over power from whites. That was their worst fear. To have others control them they way they had controlled others. That's where racism flourished. By maintaining the belief that whites were born superior, they were able to justify that which could not be justified otherwise.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Dutch Uncle,
Sherman's thinking was that by showing everyone how horrible war really is that it would be rejected. And here you are rejecting what he did. It worked, and it brought the war to a quicker conclusion. Sherman's strategy was considered brilliant. A very popular and effective WWII tank was named after him.So you agree that massacring a village like My Lai is necessary if it furthers the cause of the war. I disagree. What Sherman did was a war crime by today's standards. To praise him for doing it is like praising a slaver because he rarely hanged his slaves, only beat them when necessary and it was all completely legal at the time. Sorry, man, but I'm not buying it.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
Verified User
Sherman 's memiors,shows Sherman strongly hints,he was Tecumseh reincarnated.
Tie Your 'roo down Mate
Honoring my oath
Wow. So if, as a military officer, I committed an atrocity then it's okay as long as I say "I was only showing how horribel war really was"? Who knew?
Sherman followed the burning of Atlanta with a "scorched earth" march to the Savannah. Leaving starving men, women and children of all colors in his wake. It's why Scorched Earth is a war crime and banned by the Geneva Convention. Your applauding of his actions as being justified is immoral.
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/appli...25641e0052b545
Art 14. Protection of objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population
Starvation of civilians as a method of combat is prohibited. It is therefore prohibited to attack, destroy, remove or render useless for that purpose, objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population such as food-stuffs, agricultural areas for the production of food-stuffs, crops, livestock, drinking water installations and supplies and irrigation works.
High Level of Addiction
It is correct that without the south the remaining states were screwed.
Sherman was a butcher, nothing more nothing less.
Lincoln went through generals looking for one brutal enough, finally found one in Sherman.
"Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Joseph Stalin
The USA has lost WWIV to China with no other weapons but China Virus and some cash to buy democrats.
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