Reply With QuoteImmigrating to Canada isn't that difficult, actually. Granted, if you don't have any appreciable job skills, you might find it difficult.Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick
Verified User
leave then, cocksucker.
Political Heretic
Immigrating to Canada isn't that difficult, actually. Granted, if you don't have any appreciable job skills, you might find it difficult.
Get Off My Lawn
...or a criminal record.
Common sense is not a gift, it's a punishment because you have to deal with everyone who doesn't have it.
Saudade (06-19-2020)
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello NiftyNiblick,
That is an opinion. We have no way of knowing what the future will bring. Predictions of the future can never be hard fast facts. Sure. I agree there is plenty of hatred. I do not agree that half the country hates the other half. Yes, there is lots of hatred. Yes, it is being amped up by hurtful rhetoric. Yes, it is also being well portrayed in the media. If it bleeds it leads. Controversy is king. And because of that, stories of people still respecting one another and getting along just fine are not presented. But I tell you this. Everyone is not a hater. People do not enjoy hatred. People are tired of it. People want to live in peace. Most people simply wish to enjoy their lives. This hatred fad that has been going around could become old and tired. People are tired of hatred and hating. Hating is no fun. It is not logical to spend a life embroiled in hatred, not desirable. Times could change. They usually do. We do not know what the future will bring.
Yeah, well, it's not that way with everyone.
I have no such mandate of hatred. I do quite well without it. I love my life, actually. Life is fantastic, wonderful, a thing to be cherished, nurtured, enjoyed. I have a loving circle of friends who are not violent nor hateful. Friends of all political beliefs. Supporters of the president. I don't hate them. They don't hate me. We are not in the news yelling things in the street, not carrying signs nor brandishing weapons. I love my friends and I love my life. I talk to my friends. I try to understand their reasons for supporting the president. I find it fascinating that they can support this man who seems so wrong for the job. But I can not tell them they are wrong to do that. They have to be free to make up their own minds. That's the way our country was designed to work. People of differing views voting for whomever they please. Learning, getting informed, discussing the business of the nation.
The beauty of this nation is that we have this diversity of views, that we allow all views and the freedom to openly discuss politics. A well functioning democracy depends on the active engagement of a well informed populace. It doesn't depend on being liberal or being conservative. It depends on having both the left and the right represented in government. It is wrong to tell people what they should believe. The best we can do is to make a convincing argument why our way is better. I am liberal but I understand we cannot have a strictly liberal nation. Nor a conservative one.
A vendetta is wrong. Seeking vengeance is a recipe for a very stressful and troubled life. Hatred hurts the hater far more than the hated. Revenge is the pursuit of fools. They don't know how to enjoy life. Maybe it is the fact that I am unencumbered by religion. I only have faith in mankind. Logic guides me. Logic says we only live so long, so we might as well try to enjoy as much of our existence as possible while we have the chance. All too soon our lives will be over. I would never dream of wasting my precious life on hatred. This is a fascinating world and there is so much to please one, so much pleasure and enjoyment to be sought. That is how I logically choose to use my limited time on this planet.
I know everyone is not like me. And I also know that everyone is not like you. I believe it is a mistake to think that half of this nation actually hates the other half. I think that has been blown way out of proportion by a media which thrives on controversy. I think most people want to get along with others and not be ruled by hatred. I think our leader has made the polarization worse on purpose for his own political gain. I see that has not been working out very well for him. I certainly hope the nation loses enough faith in him that he is replaced in November.
We are just in a rough phase. It doesn't have to always be this way.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
Iolo/Penderyn (06-20-2020)
1960s Chick Magnet
Our extreme ideological diversity is why America is being proven to be a failed experiment.
We MUST be either a socialist country or a fascist one. Those are the only real choices in the real world All compromises are an illusion as none have ever succeeded...just as we're failing now.
And straddling a fence is what destroys our nads.
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello NiftyNiblick,
OK, let's entertain that thought for a moment. If true, and this nation came out of the US Constitution, the implication is that the Constitution is flawed. So if the whole idea of America is a failure, what founding document of a new better nation could possibly be better? Do you think you can write a better document?
Oh, I don't think we're failing. Sure, we've lost some ground on the road to creating the kind of America that allows the most to enjoy 'The American Dream,' But that is not a straight road and neither is it one of a gradual incline upward. Tis instead filled with curves, hills and valleys. We are in a valley. We'll get going back uphill again. We always do. Let him rant and rave. Remember: It could be his last few months in office. Oh, here's an interesting thought. Remember how the Senate didn't want to let Obama pick a SCOTUS in 2016? Even though a new nomination couldn't be made for another 10 months? The Garland nomination was something like 8 months ahead of the election and McConnell refused to even schedule a hearing. Suppose a new vacancy arose between now and the 2020 election. Who would be surprised if McConnell rushed a new nomination right through now?
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
Verified User
I think you are probably right, but I was hoping for something more concrete than that. I ask these questions because the only thing I ever hear as evidence is "oh it's obvious, you can just see it." Without anything substantial to back it up or show it to me. I am not denying it, I was just hoping someone would be able to give me a bit more than that.
I don't think any of it is ok. But I am trying to disassociate myself from all of Trump's antics. His outlandish statements/tweets/misdirections.
I am looking at what he has done, First Step Act, the Opportunity Zones, restoring funding for black colleges, decrease in the country's poverty rate and a growing economy, a decreasing unemployment rate among black americans.... these are good things no?
Not good enough for you? There is another thread here that states these things are more than Biden has done in 30 years (a bit exaggerated, but no one in that thread refutes any of the claims), riots and violence against black people occurred during the Obama administration but we don't attribute that to his neglect of the black community? Or do you?
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Triplelefthook,
Yes, I do think Obama was a bit neglectful of racial tensions. And that is just part of his nature. He came from a mixed race family. He didn't spend a whole childhood in struggling black neighborhoods. He is not accustomed to being a race activist. He tried to stay out of it too much. I think he could have done a lot more for Black rights. Especially since the big reason all those racial tensions flared up then was in response to the affront of having a black president. Hate groups grew at an alarming rate during his tenure. He should have done more to address that. I get it that he didn't want to be remembered as a Black Rights President. He wanted Health Care Reform.
I also think DT rode in on a wave of anti minority / anti immigrant sentiment, and has exacerbated the problem repeatedly, and he is purposely fanning the flames of racial tension by holding his rally in Tulsa, home of the Black Wall Street Massacre. The reason he is doing this is because he doesn't want Coronavirus to dominate the news. He must feel he polls better as a racist than as an inept leader of the nation with the most Covid.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
Verified User
So how does the country get better? There is a sizeable amount of people who don't believe that racism is as big an issue in the country, in fact there are some (my Father for one) who state that due to affirmative action, quotas and the like... there is actually reverse racism in the country! The whole "why isn't there a White History Month?" mantra.
People like this ask for some evidence of racism and I ask you for it as well and you say "Oh, it's obvious" "of course it happens" "why do you even need to ask?"
That's not a convincing argument.
In terms of fixing it, as you have stated - even Barack Obama didn't make it a priority to fix this problem (Healthcare was a pretty good cause to focus on tho). So I don't think it's fair to say the things that Trump have done are "insufficient." It is something, he's passing laws to help the Black community isn't he? Also Black unemployment is down and poverty is down.
Isn't that a road to helping the problem? Would Biden do any better? Has he in the past? Did Obama do any better? Would Hilary Clinton have done better?
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Triplelefthook,
The country gets better in the immediate sense by taking measures to drastically reduce police violence against blacks.
For the long term battle we have to continue to look at ways to increase black upward mobility and racial equality. Despite what people like your father think, and I'm sure he's a good man, implicit bias is real and it holds blacks back from achievement. I was interested to hear the other day there seems to be a ceiling for black officers in the military. They make it up to Col OK, and some even make Brigadier General, but few ever get past that point. Nobody thinks it is because they are incapable. The problem is that at this point advancement is largely a popularity contest. If you are not socializing and in the favor of those in power then you are not advancing.
And just look at the relative earnings we talked about earlier. Attitudes are against black advancement and it shows. That evidence enough for me. These people get college degrees and they don't get paid as much as a white high school dropout. That says a lot right there about how much opportunity has been available to them. And what a shame. Our society is cutting itself off from a lot of great talent!
America will be greater if we can utilize all the human capital potential which is currently languishing.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
Verified User
After the George Floyd killing, my wife changed her facebook status to support the Black Lives Matter movement, her Brother then sent us both a very angry text message. Her brother is a US Marshall, in Washington DC.
He went on and on and on saying that Black people commit more than half of the murders in this country and that the police, him included, get sent to police the higher crime areas. Nothing to do with race, they go where they are needed. They are sent in to deal with crime in high crime areas and it's not his fault if those areas are predominantly black.
He then stated that there is nothing wrong with the police force, apart from a few bad apples, Derek Chauvin being one of them (a poorly trained bad apple he said)
It was an interesting discussion, because I don't think he is lying about his insistence that he gets sent to deal with crime in high crime areas. And he has sent me pictures, videos of times when he is about to approach a suspect and in this country you have NO idea what kind of weapon they might have (legally obtained or not) and the scenarios he paints are terrifying. I can't imagine how violently or brutally i would respond to situations if the consequences were so dire.
In terms of the ability to earn, i think the study you brought up was certainly relevant to inherited wealth among white vs. black people. It didn't show that a white person EARNED more than a black person of equal education levels.
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Triplelefthook,
It is only logical that people stuck in lousy living conditions with little opportunity and virtually no hope of bettering themselves are going to have more violence and require more policing. That is not because of their color. It is because they have no regular jobs and plenty of time to dismay about their lousy lives.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
Honoring my oath
I understand the sensitivity of all LEOs being painted with the same brush as all the white cops who have illegally stopped, harmed or, worse, killed innocent American citizens because of their skin tone. I also understand that if those same LEOs know of these bad apples and do nothing to stop it, they are just as guilty of the crime.
"Blue Flu" should be treated as a crime. Police and other LEOs have had decades to clean up their own houses. Now American citizens are taking action to clean it for them.
"Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"
Verified User
Exactly - he says there is nothing to do with their color. So it isn't a race issue and there is no merit to the idea that we need to "drastically reduce police violence against blacks"
There is no excessive violence against blacks, just violence towards the criminal element in the country that, if you are well-trained, isn't an issue
That's his argument and it is what many people say regarding race.
So to heal the country - how do we fix the poverty? Is Biden the right answer? Trump has decreased poverty, passed laws and initiatives that help the black community (not enough according to you, but maybe more than Obama, more than Biden would? Depends on his running mate perhaps), and unemplyment has gone down in the black community under Trump... so is Trump the right way forward?
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Triplelefthook,
Well if he treats everyone the same then he's not the problem. But he doesn't know what goes on with other officers when he's not around.
Correct - I disagree with that conclusion. I think DT rode the economic momentum that Obama ushered in. I don't think the tax cut for the wealthy helped the economy. The economy was already doing fine. What DT did was to make wealth inequality worse. The federal debt has gone through the roof. That's not helping anything. We don't collect enough revenue to pay our normal expenses, no way we can enact any programs to help the disadvantaged. We don't have room in the budget for it.
I'll tell you what is going to increase upward mobility. Tax the rich heavily, use the money to set up programs that help people succeed. End the legal corruption. That starts locally. We have to elect local leaders who will pass the Anti-Corruption Act locally. Then we move up to statewide. After that, State elections will be subject to it and we will begin sending anti-corruption people to Congress. After we get enough support there, we can pass it at the national level.
The problem is we no longer have a Democracy, but people don't know it. Most people think we have a Democracy, but what we really have is an oligarchy. Congress passes what the rich want, not what the people want. Until that changes, we are stuck. The left and the right each think the other is to blame for our problems, but really it is the oligarchy. The greedy super-rich and powerful (not to be confused with rich people who are not greedy and sincerely wish to help,) the greedy ones are able to exert far too much control over our government. They get their way. We the people don't get our way.
The greedy rich have the left and right fighting against one another and constantly throw gas on that fire. They keep the left and right laser-focused on one another as they rip us all off on everything. It's a grand divide and conquer scheme. We have been divided and conquered. It's like Warren Buffet said. The Class War has already been won by the upper class. They dominate. We the people are the dominated.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
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